----------------------------------- JimWantsAliens Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:39 pm Duffy's Fate in RoboCop 2 ----------------------------------- As always, apologies if this has been covered in the past. Something occurred to me a while ago and I'd like to survey opinions on it. I saw that horrific death scene when I was 10 or 11. What exactly do you think they do to him after the camera cuts away? I've always assumed it's obvious - but actually the novelization and comic don't go into detail. And I wonder if actually we all think different things. Or maybe you just think, well they kill him - stop thinking about details Jim, you sicko. I actually find that scene the most disturbing in the first two films. ----------------------------------- artuditu Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:22 pm Re: Duffy's Fate in RoboCop 2 ----------------------------------- Or maybe you just think, well they kill him - stop thinking about details Jim, you sicko. Ditto :b I actually find that scene the most disturbing in the first two films. I think it is, not only disturbing but just too graphic, violent and sadistic. I was around 8 or 9 when I saw it for the first time. When we talk about R2 having too much of a dark and serious tone that is always the first image that comes to my mind. The surgery to extract Cain's brain would also catch my attention when I was a kid.... Definitely. ----------------------------------- Archive Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:15 pm ----------------------------------- What exactly do you think they do to him after the camera cuts away? There was a prop item for sale on ebay many years ago that seemed to indicate that Cain sent pieces of Duffy (fingers and toes) to the police department. (Similar to what happened to Robo.) Interesting if true but I never found any actual source or script to confirm this. I saved the prop picture but no way of telling if it's legit. Interestingly, in the Fourth draft of Robo2 Cain kills Duffy by beating him to death with brass-knuckles. While beating Duffy to a mess Cain has some weird dialogue of being bullied as a child. ----------------------------------- JimWantsAliens Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:00 pm ----------------------------------- That's interesting. There's actually a similar scene in the Dead Or Alive comic. Robo's dismantling obviously foreshadows it so we kind of know what Cain's like at that point. I used to think it was a needlessly horrific scene (and I saw it in the cut version until 2002 as I live in the UK). Actually, it's clever in a way that it is gory, but it also leaves a massive amount to the imagination at the same time. ----------------------------------- RoboPimp Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:52 pm Re: Duffy's Fate in RoboCop 2 ----------------------------------- The surgery to extract Cain's brain would also catch my attention when I was a kid.... Definitely. Yeah, I first started watching the Robocop movies when i was around 3. I had to stop watching the first one because it was too scary, but the other two were OK. The only thing is I would make my parents fast forward past the scene with Cain's brain in the jar. I would also make them fast forward past when Otomo has the messed up face until I was like 7 or so. Its funny though that the scene of them cutting up Duffy never bothered me as a kid. I guess the implication of violence really isn't as bad as seeing it. ----------------------------------- JimWantsAliens Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:40 pm ----------------------------------- The brain in the jar didn't bother me as much as the previous shot - Cain's POV of the labcoat walking around casually holding his face! ----------------------------------- ChAnOoD Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:34 am ----------------------------------- I think Robo 2 tried to shock audiences on a lot of scenes, from the "stabbing heel on eye" from the begining, to Robo into pieces, dude shot in the eye and Duffyīs death and Cainīs brain. While I dislike things going on with eyes, those two pieces didnīt "hurt" me, found them even comical. Robo2 came on 1990, so I was 6 when I saw it on the big screen (!). I remember a neighbour came with it on VHS when it came in. He rented it so my parents and I watched it. I kept spoiling all the movie, so they asked me to leave, and was so afraid of Cain while I was alone! Ah, memories... As for Duffyīs death, yeah, itīs not fun to watch, but the violence and tone in this sequel is more "serious" than the previous one. Compare it to Emilīs death. While is brutal as hell (he explodes when Clarence hits him!), it has a "Warner Bros Cartoon, Looney Tunes" quality to it. Again, itīs something we already talked over and over, the tone of the sequels. I showed "RoboCop" to a friend and he cheered Emilīs death, to the point to ask me to put his death again. I love Millerīs work but I donīt think his style didnīt translate well into the Robosequels. ----------------------------------- RoboJOF Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:33 am ----------------------------------- The gratuitous violence in Robocop 2 seems like a way to one-up for the sequel. I remember averting my gaze when Duffy met his end. The Cain operation scene was particularly gory, but what resonated with me was the sound of the bonesaw and the sounds of them removing his brain. The scene with the doctor holding the lower half of Cain's skull is indeed creepy. The special effects in that movie are very good overall (in a time with little to no cgi!). This takes me a bit off topic, but as I read it made me think about how easily people can watch someone getting shot, but when someone starts to cut someone with a scalpel, it makes us cringe. I hate eye wounds in movies because they gross me out a bit. For some reason, I particularly hate hand wounds (like in the beginning of Darkman when Eddie Black lost his fingers with the cigar cutter). That stuff really bugs me! ----------------------------------- RoboPimp Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:00 am ----------------------------------- You know there's probably a really interesting point about how humans are trained to have adverse reactions to different forms of violence, but I'm no psychiatrist so its lost on me. ----------------------------------- Stan The Man Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:29 am ----------------------------------- This takes me a bit off topic, but as I read it made me think about how easily people can watch someone getting shot, but when someone starts to cut someone with a scalpel, it makes us cringe. I hate eye wounds in movies because they gross me out a bit. For some reason, I particularly hate hand wounds (like in the beginning of Darkman when Eddie Black lost his fingers with the cigar cutter). That stuff really bugs me! Statistically people are generally more scared of blades than guns, a crime victim is less likely to scream out when confronted up close with a bladed weapon than a firearm. And that makes sense - In a knife fight you are just about guaranteed to get cut and blade stabs and especially slashes are truly horrible wounds, not just in themselves but just to visualize, big gaping slits into one's flesh and body - Gunshots are certainly horrible wounds but their damage isn't too overt, they aren't quite as graphic to actually look at for most by comparison. These are psychological studies from various parties, including law enforcement and practical defense communities and they are quite valid. I agree about eye area and all that as well. But as you said, that's all another thing. That said, I'm with Chanood and artuditu in terms of the topic, they pretty much said it as have many of us over the years. R1's violence was gratuitous but comical, had a layer of absurdity. Indeed cartoonish at times, but still horrible. R2 was a lot more cold and brutal, leaning more towards horror and shock and almost totally devoid of any lightness whatsoever. There were a couple of humorous-leaning tones to the violence in a couple of instances to me, but I think they were unintentional - I thought holding Cain's face was shocking but ridiculous at the same time, again, the latter was probably unintended though. Duffy's death is indeed hard to watch, and even cringe-worthy. It's just cold and scary. Actually, it's clever in a way that it is gory, but it also leaves a massive amount to the imagination at the same time. That is true, part of its horror is that we don't see much, following the whole 'imagination is more powerful (or, in this context, worse) than reality' reasoning. Verhoeven, Miner and Neumeier noted this in interviews about R1 being re-cut, stating that by taking some away they actually took the lightness out of it, and made it more violent in that regard. Same thing here, except again, there's no lightness here, so it's taking a shocking and brutal scene and only making it more so. ----------------------------------- JimWantsAliens Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:11 am ----------------------------------- I always found the fact that Cain has a surgeon (presumably medically qualified) terrifying too. Apart from being disturbing, it shows the power and influence Cain has. Clarence and Cain are both great villains because you genuinely feel they're dangerous and not to be fucked with. They have an almost heel-like quality (wrestling term) but are both intelligent and brutal. ----------------------------------- Stan The Man Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:23 pm ----------------------------------- ^ Oh yeah. Even there though those two characters reflect the tone of the two films - Clarence has a layer of humor and fun to him, vicious and sadistic though it may be. Cain not quite so much. Still though, you got it. Anyway, an interesting thing about Duffy's death (for me anyway) is that it parallels somewhat with the death of Bob Morton in that, though he is a bad guy and we know he worked against the cops and Robo, you can't help but feel a bit sorry about his death at the hands of Cain, whatever he may have done he didn't quite deserve what happened to him, especially not that level of brutality and savageness. However, unlike Bob, which we feel bad for because we mostly like his character and are fond of his contribution in the film (which is of course being the 'daddy' of RoboCop), Duffy's death is more sad in that moment and because of the manner in which he dies, which I guess would actually be more akin to Murphy's death in a way. Again, though, Murphy's death featured the macabre humor, laughing and jokes from Clarence and co - Which in some ways is actually more depraved but in spite of that does ease the tension of that moment, as opposed to here where again, it is just cold and shocking, no buffer or diffusion at all. ----------------------------------- RoboJOF Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:29 am ----------------------------------- Good Comparison, Stan, Officer Duffy and Bob Morton's Deaths in the films are similar in that they are part of the futuristic corporate run, Robocop Universe, somewhat indirectly related to our protagonist's actions. It might seem odd , but I think that killing Bob was more heinous crime. In his world, he was just the typical corporate climber (like Kinney) who was removed from the violence. The things that happen to him don't seem just to me (he may have pissed off Dick Jones, but he didn't commit any crime). Officer Duffy should have heeded Robocop's advice and "stayed out of trouble." When you deal with drug gangs, you're playing with fire. ----------------------------------- RoboPimp Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:48 am ----------------------------------- It might seem odd , but I think that killing Bob was more heinous crime. In his world, he was just the typical corporate climber (like Kinney) who was removed from the violence. The things that happen to him don't seem just to me (he may have pissed off Dick Jones, but he didn't commit any crime). I completely agree. While Bob Morton might not be the most moral guy, he really didn't do anything wrong. Dick Jones didn't care wether the ED-209s worked, as long as it made money, and Bob was able to find a solution that actually worked. And he might just have seen Robocop as a product but at least he had pride in his work. Sure, he was doing blow with a couple bitches, but if thats a sin I don't wanna go to heaven! ----------------------------------- artuditu Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:58 pm ----------------------------------- Bob Morton was somewhat a shark not caring about the people he used as a mean to get what he wanted, he didn't care about Kinney dying and he didn't care about Murphy who was just a body and a brain. Still we liked him because he didn't do anything illegal, he had some charisma, lots of ambition and even guts (going against Dick Jones straight in his face and not behind his back). He was also passionate about Robo, it was his project and proved to be much better planned than ED-209, so at the end he was good at his job and a great asset for his organization. His success (promotion, money, women and drugs) was well deserved in a capitalistic society. I think that second paragraph explains why at the end peolple felt sorry for him when he died, he was probably an asshole that would just use others to get what he wanted and not caring about them at all, but still he had charm and he followed the rules ----------------------------------- Edd 209 Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:47 pm ----------------------------------- I often wondered what if Duffy had become Robocop 2? He would exact revenge on Robocop from the interrogation scene. I really enjoyed the whole Cain brain scenes - I think this works really well with the whole Robo sci fi mythology. ----------------------------------- RoboJOF Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:15 am ----------------------------------- I think Duffy would not have made it as a Robocop 2 prototype. He would probably have ripped his guts out like the other ones. I remember the Cain operation scenes being really creepy when I was a kid, but now they don't bother me as much. The Cain brain looks a bit fake, but the Cain skull looks realistic. ----------------------------------- Rick Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:16 pm ----------------------------------- Bob Morton was somewhat a sharkWho asked you, twerp? ----------------------------------- Slash Man Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:07 pm ----------------------------------- RoboCop 2 was definitely more like a comic book. Everything was exaggerated; the violence, the humor, the satire -- not much was as subtle as the first film. Then again, comparing how realistic the films in a series called 'RoboCop' are is kind of self-defeating. This was one scene where we saw enough violence that it became pretty gruesome. That scalpel dragging across his sternum was pretty sick. But the implications of what came after were far worse. ----------------------------------- ChAnOoD Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:29 pm ----------------------------------- RoboCop 2 was definitely more like a comic book. Everything was exaggerated; the violence, the humor, the satire -- not much was as subtle as the first film. Then again, comparing how realistic the films in a series called 'RoboCop' are is kind of self-defeating. This was one scene where we saw enough violence that it became pretty gruesome. That scalpel dragging across his sternum was pretty sick. But the implications of what came after were far worse. I see the label "comic book" with Robo2 from time to time, but Iīm not sure about it. It gets over the top and exaggerated, but thereīs no fun on it. The deaths are gruesome and excessive and thereīs no charm on it. It feels like the writers were depressed. Hell, even the score sounds sad to me when you compare it to Poledourisīthemes. We talked a lot about it in the past, but it looks like the first one was a miracle. The following stories didnīt catch too well the tone of the Roboverse. ----------------------------------- Slash Man Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:19 am ----------------------------------- Admittedly, saying something is "like a comic book" is a broad definition. Probably the default image people get is the colorful Silver Age comics of the 50s. I meant that RoboCop 2 reflected a lot of the trends of 80s comics of the time. Make everything more gritty and serious. So pretty much, Frank Miller. ----------------------------------- ChAnOoD Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:39 am ----------------------------------- Admittedly, saying something is "like a comic book" is a broad definition. Probably the default image people get is the colorful Silver Age comics of the 50s. I meant that RoboCop 2 reflected a lot of the trends of 80s comics of the time. Make everything more gritty and serious. So pretty much, Frank Miller. Frank Miller has a sense of humour, even with dark, gritty stories. But it seems Kershner didnīt know that, as Robo2 doesnīt have the charm of the previous flick. Yes, it has a few TV Spots with some humour on them, and one or two funny scenes, but overall it doesnīt get the sense of scary/funny scenes of the Verhoeven film. I can laugh when Robo destroys the rapistīs crotch; canīt laugh when they "open" Duffy. ----------------------------------- RoboJOF Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:59 am ----------------------------------- Frank Miller wrote and penciled a lot of good comics, and I have to say that I like what he tried to do with Robocop 2. The story is big, it involves lots of individuals and has some plotlines that intersect, but it probably just got edited and revised so many times that the story became a forced imitation of the first movie with some new content. The first movie was focused on the character and his interaction with the characters that made him (namely Clarence and his gang), there were only a few scenes devoted to the OCP characters and they were mostly used to usher in next parts of the movie. Robocop 2 had too much going on, a weak antagonist and less focus on the character, so it might have been a story better told as a miniseries. (I still enjoy it, but I am always the most critical about things I like the most) ----------------------------------- HOB888 Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:13 pm ----------------------------------- I'm glad they decided to rewrite the script of Miller, it was lame as hell. ----------------------------------- RoboJOF Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:00 am ----------------------------------- Dick Jones: WHO CARED IT WORKED OR NOT! (what a dick) ----------------------------------- AceAlive1 Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:25 pm ----------------------------------- i think duffy probably became dog food. they were just cutting on him ----------------------------------- KidGoesWild Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:36 am ----------------------------------- That was absolutely, utterly terrifying and horrifying to see this as a kid. Today with all the torture porn movies around, people are desensitized on something like this, but back then, the way it was filmed, that was near traumatizing _____________________________ http://robocopmovies.blogspot.com/ ----------------------------------- RoboLewis Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:37 am ----------------------------------- At the beginning of the script for the first film, there was an Officer Duffy that gets killed off right away. Duffy was a female cop though. ----------------------------------- RoboLewis Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:51 pm ----------------------------------- I’ve been thinking about Duffy and had questions like if Murphy and Lewis told Sgt. Reed about Duffy being a bad cop? Or did anyone even wonder what happened to him, especially if he had a partner? And instead of cutting him open, what if they kept injecting him with Nuke so when his body got discovered, it would look like he just overdosed on the drug? ----------------------------------- Stan The Man Mon Feb 26, 2024 1:25 am ----------------------------------- I’ve been thinking about Duffy and had questions like if Murphy and Lewis told Sgt. Reed about Duffy being a bad cop? Or did anyone even wonder what happened to him, especially if he had a partner? And instead of cutting him open, what if they kept injecting him with Nuke so when his body got discovered, it would look like he just overdosed on the drug? They did; he himself says 'Ah usual shit from Reed - Eh they'll never prove anything..' talking to Hob and Catzo before being knocked out. Sounds like he's been a dirty cop for a while but has managed to skate by and cover his tracks just enough to never get pinched over it. And way they were going through cops he probably didn't have a partner long, if at all. They were talking about cops only going one per car and all. That all said, probably many felt a 'good riddance' moment with him. I'm quite sure they probably found his body at some point and well, there it is. Interesting thought about having him overdose on Nuke. Could have made for a neat scene where he coulda been like how Catzo died in certain adaptations perhaps.