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RoboCop 2 - What happened?
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:27 am Reply with quote

I'm not usually one to defend RoboCop 3, as much as it is a guilty pleasure for me (I love terrible movies...) (lol), but I thought there was a reasonable amount of emotion in his character. I don't know if I would have wanted to see an increasingly-emotional RoboCop...maybe flashes of a little more anger over the death of Lewis, and perhaps this could have been further expressed in a little more brutality when he was dealing with the Rehab officers...but then they wouldn't have gotten the kid-friendly rating they were shooting-for. (No pun intended...) (lol)

I think perhaps the whole "Murphy-rediscovering-his-humanity" story arc had already been told, so maybe the unrelatable, peculiar way RoboCop reacted to certain things were mined for kiddie-humor, as it were. Or maybe, if one might suspend criticism and/or expectations, one might surmise that Murphy may have even endeavoured to actually suppress his humanity and emotions to be more effective at his job. It may have been slight or subdued, but he did display some sadness and anger over Lewis, however subtle as it was, along with seemingly a sense of anger and vengeance aimed towards OCP and the Rehab officers, as well as some tenderness with Nikko, further reminding him of his own son, ultimately. So there was some humanity there, but not much, and even less anguish or pain...but like I said we had already seen that side of him, and they were limited by the film's rating.

I also considered how unfeeling and nonchalant RoboCop reacted when his fingers, and ultimately his entire left forearm was cut-off by the *groan* Otomo ninja...but I'd imagine since it was interchangeable to begin with, maybe that particular arm was psychologically seen by RoboCop as a unilateral or replaceable component instead of an extension of his cybernetic self. When Clarence impales his chest in the first film, I always imagined he may have damaged some organics that may have been housed in his chest, thereby eliciting the very human cry of pain, although I suppose it's more poignant and intriguing to think he had physically and mentally accepted his robotic condition to the point that it really did hurt him when his robotic components were damaged...but then if that's the case, it would serve to only weaken the character overall, which, would in-turn, diminish and marginalize his rebirth as an unstoppable machine of vengeance, but I digress...

Having said all of that...therein lies the problem with RoboCop 3; it was a case of self sabotage and second-guessing one's own fan base. Whatever focus group that decided RoboCop films should be more kid or family friendly misunderstood what made RoboCop cool to begin with...the graphic gore, violence, and realism of it all is what made the character so memorable to begin with...does anyone seriously think that had the first film had been rewritten and restructured to be more kid and or family-friendly before it was ever released, that we would still be talking about it thirty years later? How do they think RoboCop was such a hit to begin with? It took some very risky chances with the very nature of the film, the intense subject matter, and that's why its appeal lasts unto this very day, whereas RoboCop 3, as enjoyable as it may be to die-hard fans (like me) that still love it for what it is, remains in comparison as an unfortunate, underdeveloped, and neutered installment in a series that still holds so much potential as a theatrically unique, exciting, and completely viable concept.




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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:55 am Reply with quote

Oh, and as for RoboCop 2 and why it didn't necessarily hold up to the original...it was produced to capitalize on the success of the first film, whereas the first one was crafted with a specific story in mind...clear themes to illustrated and extrapolate on.



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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:10 pm Reply with quote

TODD-209 :
When Clarence impales his chest in the first film, I always imagined he may have damaged some organics that may have been housed in his chest, thereby eliciting the very human cry of pain, although I suppose it's more poignant and intriguing to think he had physically and mentally accepted his robotic condition to the point that it really did hurt him when his robotic components were damaged...but then if that's the case, it would serve to only weaken the character overall, which, would in-turn, diminish and marginalize his rebirth as an unstoppable machine of vengeance, but I digress...


An unfeeling, robotic robocop has absolutely no value or interest to me at all. Its becomes a cliche stiff robot then. Thats why I have absolutely no interest in almost anything post R2. Im a huge fan of THAT robocop - a guy driven by vengeance, who, although armored and stronger, can also feel pain , emotional and physical. In R2 he hurt a lot, and basically re-lived his brutal death and mutilation, even in robotic body. THAT robocop is a fantastic character to me. A man inside the suit, who feels anger, pathos, needs, and can be hurt and tortured like any of us, even if it takes a bit more to do it

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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:14 pm Reply with quote

You make a good point...Robert Burke couldn't seem to find a natural voice for RoboCop; it was either too soft and too human, or it was way too wooden and/or robotic, and one would argue that RoboCop's voice has as much to do with his overall portrayal as anything else inflected by the actor playing him. That's where Peter Weller succeeded on this one of so many levels in his understanding and portrayal of RoboCop...after all, in helping to bring the character to life to begin with, he understood what was going on with the character, in his mind, heart, and soul, whereas Robert Burke was stepping into a role and script he had to adapt to, to wrap his mind around, and I don't think he necessarily understood it completely, thereby proving you can't always simply replace the actor portraying a larger-than-life character like RoboCop and it be the same.

I have to admit though, there are a few nuances Robert Burke brought to the table that I rather liked, even if he wasn't necessarily right for the part. He did use some unique static movements that were different from Welller's. For example, when he draws his gun from his leg-holster in the church scene, I always made a mental note about how very robotic it looked, and you could get a good feel for his inner turmoil when he's looking back and forth between the Rehab officers and the displaced civilians. There were little flashes of brilliance, but they were few and far between...




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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:07 pm Reply with quote

Well Burke was the best replacement. Yes, his moves were really good, but thankfully he also had Moni Yakim to coach him. I cant fault him for Robo's behavior, I mean all his robotic lines and the way he acted was in the script, so its not his fauly at all, and he was really into it judging by interviews with him and people around him. I dont blame Robert at all, but Dekker for this portrayal. And still, none of the successive actor after Weller had the small, short lips like Weller had, every other guy starting with Burke, had wide and long arching lips ( Sad ) and that just didnt fit the mask I think, it looked like Robo just ate something bitter and the lips took most of the exposed face area

Heres what I mean


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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:20 am Reply with quote

Maybe the baby food wasn't up to scratch in R3?
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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:37 pm Reply with quote

KidGoesWild :
TODD-209 :
When Clarence impales his chest in the first film, I always imagined he may have damaged some organics that may have been housed in his chest, thereby eliciting the very human cry of pain, although I suppose it's more poignant and intriguing to think he had physically and mentally accepted his robotic condition to the point that it really did hurt him when his robotic components were damaged...but then if that's the case, it would serve to only weaken the character overall, which, would in-turn, diminish and marginalize his rebirth as an unstoppable machine of vengeance, but I digress...


An unfeeling, robotic robocop has absolutely no value or interest to me at all. Its becomes a cliche stiff robot then. Thats why I have absolutely no interest in almost anything post R2. Im a huge fan of THAT robocop - a guy driven by vengeance, who, although armored and stronger, can also feel pain , emotional and physical. In R2 he hurt a lot, and basically re-lived his brutal death and mutilation, even in robotic body. THAT robocop is a fantastic character to me. A man inside the suit, who feels anger, pathos, needs, and can be hurt and tortured like any of us, even if it takes a bit more to do it

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There was a lot of humanity inside Robocop in R2, too bad much people didn't want to see it.Like when he decided to get rid all of those nonsensical PC directives, even if there was a chance that he could die in the process.
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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:08 pm Reply with quote

HOB888 :
KidGoesWild :
TODD-209 :
When Clarence impales his chest in the first film, I always imagined he may have damaged some organics that may have been housed in his chest, thereby eliciting the very human cry of pain, although I suppose it's more poignant and intriguing to think he had physically and mentally accepted his robotic condition to the point that it really did hurt him when his robotic components were damaged...but then if that's the case, it would serve to only weaken the character overall, which, would in-turn, diminish and marginalize his rebirth as an unstoppable machine of vengeance, but I digress...


An unfeeling, robotic robocop has absolutely no value or interest to me at all. Its becomes a cliche stiff robot then. Thats why I have absolutely no interest in almost anything post R2. Im a huge fan of THAT robocop - a guy driven by vengeance, who, although armored and stronger, can also feel pain , emotional and physical. In R2 he hurt a lot, and basically re-lived his brutal death and mutilation, even in robotic body. THAT robocop is a fantastic character to me. A man inside the suit, who feels anger, pathos, needs, and can be hurt and tortured like any of us, even if it takes a bit more to do it

_____________________________

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There was a lot of humanity inside Robocop in R2, too bad much people didn't want to see it.Like when he decided to get rid all of those nonsensical PC directives, even if there was a chance that he could die in the process.



Oh it goes far more beyond that, Ive never missed it, and it was decades after, that I started reading that most people didnt get it. For example, the performance highlighted in the Definitive Story book when Holzgang psychologically bullies Robo. Weller with his shaky voice and great subtle facial performance is almost on the verge of tears. Not to mention all those million instances when Robo is fuming with anger "I will KILL you!" and when he is getting his revenge with an ice cold vengeance (Kane chase). And most of the movie he is depressed, and I got it right away, there was a time when I was reading this bs that Robo returned to the robotic state in R2 (an always puzzling statemnent) that I thought "hmm, maybe I was just reading too much into this performance, maybe they are right", but then Ive read the novelization that confirms it right there and then - he is said, given up almost, depressed


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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:20 pm Reply with quote

Burke introduced the infamous "pissed-off lips" and to some extend can be seen in the following Murphy incarnations.

Could it be the chin guards used in those robo suits? Maybe it didn't fit to the other actors the same way it did to Weller...




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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:53 am Reply with quote

KidGoesWild :
the Definitive Story book


what is the definiteive story book?

artuditu :
Could it be the chin guards used in those robo suits? Maybe it didn't fit to the other actors the same way it did to Weller...


The R1 chin guard certainly seems to be more flexible and moulded to Weller's chin, whereas the shiny chin guard from R2 and beyond seems a bit more fixed in position - maybe Burke coulnd't get his mouth comfortable in there?
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:14 am Reply with quote

Edd 209 :
what is the definiteive story book?


Its a book that contains hundreds of pages about the making of Robocop, a few dozen pages about Robocop 2 and 3, and at most a page each about the games, maybe some extraneous mention of the comics...




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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:25 am Reply with quote

artuditu :
The infamous pissed-off lips Burke introduced and to some extend can be seen in the following Murphy incarnations.

Could it be the chin guards used in those robo suits? Maybe it didn't fit to the other actors the same way it did to Weller...


Its simply different anatomy, others' lips are not only wider and thinner, theyre in a different spot on the face. Weller's were almost feminine and he had them much higher than others' because of his elongated face. He really did have a unique, Mannequin-like (as Verhoeven described it) face


As for The definitve story, every fan should have it, its great, loaded with photos


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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:47 am Reply with quote

KidGoesWild :

As for The definitve story, every fan should have it, its great, loaded with photos


WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?! Why don't I have this?!
Right, an online purchase needs to be made...
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:36 pm Reply with quote

KidGoesWild :
HOB888 :
KidGoesWild :
TODD-209 :
When Clarence impales his chest in the first film, I always imagined he may have damaged some organics that may have been housed in his chest, thereby eliciting the very human cry of pain, although I suppose it's more poignant and intriguing to think he had physically and mentally accepted his robotic condition to the point that it really did hurt him when his robotic components were damaged...but then if that's the case, it would serve to only weaken the character overall, which, would in-turn, diminish and marginalize his rebirth as an unstoppable machine of vengeance, but I digress...


An unfeeling, robotic robocop has absolutely no value or interest to me at all. Its becomes a cliche stiff robot then. Thats why I have absolutely no interest in almost anything post R2. Im a huge fan of THAT robocop - a guy driven by vengeance, who, although armored and stronger, can also feel pain , emotional and physical. In R2 he hurt a lot, and basically re-lived his brutal death and mutilation, even in robotic body. THAT robocop is a fantastic character to me. A man inside the suit, who feels anger, pathos, needs, and can be hurt and tortured like any of us, even if it takes a bit more to do it

_____________________________

http://robocopmovies.blogspot.com/

There was a lot of humanity inside Robocop in R2, too bad much people didn't want to see it.Like when he decided to get rid all of those nonsensical PC directives, even if there was a chance that he could die in the process.



Oh it goes far more beyond that, Ive never missed it, and it was decades after, that I started reading that most people didnt get it. For example, the performance highlighted in the Definitive Story book when Holzgang psychologically bullies Robo. Weller with his shaky voice and great subtle facial performance is almost on the verge of tears. Not to mention all those million instances when Robo is fuming with anger "I will KILL you!" and when he is getting his revenge with an ice cold vengeance (Kane chase). And most of the movie he is depressed, and I got it right away, there was a time when I was reading this bs that Robo returned to the robotic state in R2 (an always puzzling statemnent) that I thought "hmm, maybe I was just reading too much into this performance, maybe they are right", but then Ive read the novelization that confirms it right there and then - he is said, given up almost, depressed


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Yeah...I always loved the subtle nuances Weller gave his performance in the second one...he made it seem as if RoboCop was still guided by his OCP-programmed protocols and parameters, yet there was a hint of self-aware humanity peeking-through in his comments and actions. I never got the impression that Weller's performance signaled a return to his pre-self-awareness state at all in RoboCop 2.




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