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My impressions after watching Robocop 3
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:55 pm Reply with quote

artuditu :
Yes, R1 we liked it when we were kids because it was the coolest thing on earth, not because of social satire, american christ or the odyssey of the human soul (even if at an unconscious level I think we were getting the odd messages more than we realize), but that is why I think is the film of a lifetime for me, because it has the ability to pass the test of time and adulthood, and my favorite movies today include those that I have been able to enjoy both being a kid, teenager and adult, which are not all the ones I loved in the past, many have been left behind, because they were just "exploitation" films for immature and underdeveloped minds (aka children & teens) avid of action, violence, cool looking robots, guns, aliens, monsters, martial arts... While some were smarter and very well crafted, like Robocop, Aliens, Predator, Terminator, Total Recall, First Blood etc. many others were cheesy, dumb and lazy as hell, and then yes there is a grey area of movies in between, but can't see how R3 belongs there at all. At least this is how I've ended up seeing things, I can always change my mind in the future.


^ This.
when I first watched R1 it was the movie of all movies. Always will be. Had every element of a movie I need. And since the first viewing then you begin to keep learning more and more things about it and is why it makes it great - so much going on under the surface.

artuditu :
Getting back strictly to R3, I think Burke is a good helmetless Robo/Murphy, but he is terrible with the helmet on when talking opening the mouth so widely, he moves painfully slow, like retarded slow, and the screenplay makes Robo useless in every crucial action scene, he gets his ass kicked instead of protecting Lewis, he gets his ass kicked by the first otomo, who's playing with him, it's just luck he can reach the gunarm to win; and finally the 90's child has to save his ass at the end of the movie with some computer magic...


Oh c'mon he did catch a bullet! Laughing oh dear Happy robo
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:17 am Reply with quote

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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:45 am Reply with quote

artuditu :
I took for granted the consensus among fans from some years ago, and how different things are now! So, despite getting older we now give R3 more praise than R2? I'm speechless Laughing


More praise.. yes perhaps. More than R2? Fat chance man. At least from me. I may dislike R3 less nowadays but that ain't at the expense of R2 and it's muddied awesomeness, I assure you. End of the day, you can still count on me there! Wink

Quote:
I think R3 having a few aesthetic elements more reminiscent of R1, such as music, suit color, police department,... is no more than makeup, while the story, tone and soul of the movie is nothing like R1, it's just a few superficial elements we found pleasing when we were kids, but nothing more. I mean I like Poledouris soundtrack for Conan the Destroyer, but that doesn't make it a good film, and even the soundtracks in both cases are much less inspired than the originals for R1 and Barbarian.

For the story, I've always liked the Delta City arc, but the resolution in R3 is not satisfying if you are not an early teenager. I mean, homeless rebels joining forces with cops to have an open battle against rehabs, tanks and punks in the streets? Not the definition of subtle or smart... More like a teenage fantasy, so far from the adult thinking behind R1.

I'm not saying the idea of making Robo a kind of socialist warrior against corporations is bad in itself, it has some potential, he sees injustice and acts defending the weaker against the powerful and the authority, I can see the dilemma and moral implications, but the ultimate execution of that conflict in the movie is just like a fairy tale on steroids, not a coincidence that Robo ends up flying like Superman to save the people.

Was I moved being 9-10 years old? Yes, it was exciting to see Robo being the superhero, and the good cops like Reed joining the abused people, and I even feel now some nostalgia of those past emotions, but I'm no more a kid, I can compare R3 with so many other movies, and saying it is an 7 or 8 out of 10 I think is not doing a favor to R1, which is genuinely a good movie that attracts praise and attention, with a good IMDB rating of 7.5, while R3 has a 3.9... We're not talking about a 6 or 5-something film we claim is better than it's given credit for, we're talking about a 3.9...


Well I gave a 6.5 and that was most generous for sure. Of course that is with a perfect 10 for Robo (would equate to 4.8 or so if you wanna put R1 as 7.5 - again, still rather generous by comparison but not quite as high to meet your point, though barely, admittedly) That said, I wonder what criteria those people have for a perfect 10 anyway.. Actually I don't, I don't care. tongue

I do feel at this point it doesn't deserve to be quite as hated as it once was, yes. But I have always said the same for R2 which many consider just as terrible a film. Like, opinions, man.

That said, you have superbly elaborated more-or-less my own main view of R3, which I had condensed earlier in saying it's not as reverent. It takes a safe route and imitates what worked rather than try different things as R2 did and which I give it more credit for. Sure younger it seems cool but even then it wasn't anywhere NEAR the level of R1 for me then, and still isn't now. I give it the 6.5 as saying it's mostly average, maybe with some above spots because that's how I view it now. As you noted though, that view can and likely will be subject to change. But again, rest assured it will still always be lower than R2 and never near R1 for me. The gap has perhaps narrowed a bit, but still.

Quote:
Yes, R1 we liked it when we were kids because it was the coolest thing on earth, not because of social satire, american christ or the odyssey of the human soul (even if at an unconscious level I think we were getting the odd messages more than we realize), but that is why I think is the film of a lifetime for me, because it has the ability to pass the test of time and adulthood, and my favorite movies today include those that I have been able to enjoy both being a kid, teenager and adult, which are not all the ones I loved in the past, many have been left behind, because they were just "exploitation" films for immature and underdeveloped minds (aka children & teens) avid of action, violence, cool looking robots, guns, aliens, monsters, martial arts... While some were smarter and very well crafted, like Robocop, Aliens, Predator, Terminator, Total Recall, First Blood etc. many others were cheesy, dumb and lazy as hell, and then yes there is a grey area of movies in between, but can't see how R3 belongs there at all. At least this is how I've ended up seeing things, I can always change my mind in the future.


Beautifully stated. I'm with Edd, RoboCop was and remains for me a perfect film, it has only gotten better and stronger with time, very few movies can even make that claim, let alone actually rate it. I loved it when I first saw it, and still love it today.

Otherwise, again, at the end of the day, I have to agree. I wouldn't put R3 in either of those two categories either. It might be closer to 'grey area' than it once was, but still, not quite there. R2 fits closer to the 'grey area' for me. Always did. Still does.

Quote:
Getting back strictly to R3, I think Burke is a good helmetless Robo/Murphy, but he is terrible with the helmet on when talking opening the mouth so widely, he moves painfully slow, like retarded slow, and the screenplay makes Robo useless in every crucial action scene, he gets his ass kicked instead of protecting Lewis, he gets his ass kicked by the first otomo, who's playing with him, it's just luck he can reach the gunarm to win; and finally the 90's child has to save his ass at the end of the movie with some computer magic...


Pretty much concur, as I said already. I also agree Robo was a real pussy in R3, not like the original or R2 at all. Hell in the Series I think Robo maybe wasn't quite as useless even, bah.
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:50 pm Reply with quote

Its not even that he was useless, as that he was completely characterless which was the script's fault and Dekker's direction. That was and still is my biggest gripe with R3, the complete lack of emotions and humanity in robo in R3


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Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:54 am Reply with quote

KidGoesWild :
Its not even that he was useless, as that he was completely characterless which was the script's fault and Dekker's direction. That was and still is my biggest gripe with R3, the complete lack of emotions and humanity in robo in R3


It seems most people expect every version of Robocop to have more humanity and emotion than the last. However, if you watch or read anything beyond the first movie you will see that is not truly his character's arc. I have posed this theory before, but to briefly reiterate, it is my belief that Robocop actually becomes less human as time goes on. The ending of Robocop is a brief glimpse of what he could have been, not what he was truly becoming. I pose that as time goes on and his organics deteriorate more and more, the robotic side of him takes over, until it is basically a computer programs simulating Murphy's conscience. This would explain how he grows less serious and human over time and becomes more silly and detached. This is the only way I can see fitting some of his later adventures into the canon. Of course, I am probably the only one who is trying to get Alpha Commando and RvT Kill Human into a canonical timeline, but still. I think Muprhy's humanity peaked at the end of the first Robocop and what we see in Robocop 2 and 3 is the deterioration of that humanity. By the time of Robocop 3 he still has a shred of Murphy in him for sure, but a lot of his behavior is erratic and uncharacteristic of both the original Robocop and Murphy as a human officer. Was the real reason for these changes because of the PG-13 rating and a writer/director not suitable for the character? Probably, but I prefer to think its all intentional. And since the vast majority of Robocop stories feature a PG or PG-13 version of the character, you must ask yourself who is the real Robocop?
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Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:22 am Reply with quote

Well pimp, youre theory is good and quite frankly, its the only theory that makes sense of the whole situation and in universe explains why in R3 Murphys no more. As far as R2, I see him more as cold and full of boiling anger, along with depression (most of the movie he speaks very softly and quietly), which novelization makes clearer, rather than being less human, but most people see it the other way from what I read


Im gearing up to watch R3 again, I havent seen it in at least two years. Its just everytime I do see it, it leaves such a bad taste in my mouth, its so childish I literally feel embarrassed Im watching it as an adult, Im not trying to be mean, thats the truth. I really did try to like it many times, but...

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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:40 am Reply with quote

I've been contemplating the devolution of the character of RoboCop, as it were, over the course of the two film sequels, and it just occurred to me how meta the scene is in RoboCop 2 where OCP is meeting with the panel of state and local representatives and what-have-you, and they start discussing how RoboCop can be more family-oriented or kid-friendly and not so violent...in retrospect it's like watching a studio think-tank discussing how to proceed with a PG-version of the next RoboCop sequel...which is what we actually got with RoboCop 3. I had never considered how self-fulfilling or predictive that scene was until just now...



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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:46 pm Reply with quote

TODD-209 :
I've been contemplating the devolution of the character of RoboCop, as it were, over the course of the two film sequels, and it just occurred to me how meta the scene is in RoboCop 2 where OCP is meeting with the panel of state and local representatives and what-have-you, and they start discussing how RoboCop can be more family-oriented or kid-friendly and not so violent...in retrospect it's like watching a studio think-tank discussing how to proceed with a PG-version of the next RoboCop sequel...which is what we actually got with RoboCop 3. I had never considered how self-fulfilling or predictive that scene was until just now...


Definitely. And then Robocop carries out certain things - turning off the water, stopping a smoker smoking... It didn't work and he had to electrocute himself! Murphy saw then how the future was to turn bleak haha!
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:50 am Reply with quote

It's not the worst film in the world, but it could have been much more.

I've always really liked the story of Robocop 3 (Murphy becomes a freedom fighter against the corporation that created him) and I think that, if the script had been more carefully written and the direction more specific, it would have been the perfect way to end the trilogy. It would have been (to me) a natural progression for Murphy:

R1 - Comes into being.
R2 - Struggles to adjust to his self
R3 - Accepts who he is and uses it to fight for good

The one scene that should have tied these strands together is the shootout at the church. With him looking back and forth between the rebels and McDaggatt while his prime directives are going crazy, it could have been a moment where he realises that this was his chance to finally take on OCP. Instead, the final film portrays it in a rather simplistic fashion.

Admittedly, this doesn't quite tie in with the previously mentioned notion of him losing his humanity, which is something that could have been explored in another film, where his detective skills are focused on to make up for the lack of internal wrangling.




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