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Joined: 17 Nov 2001
Post Count: 6540
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  Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:03 pm |
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Sean, I've sent you a message on FB.
I have the series bible as well as the episode 1 script, but I haven't uploaded them for the public yet.
Reasons is that these pages has been sent to the RoboDoc team for use in their series documentary. The Series Bible will be mostly exclusive to that until the doc is released.
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2774
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:33 pm |
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| Archive : | Sean, I've sent you a message on FB.
I have the series bible as well as the episode 1 script, but I haven't uploaded them for the public yet. |
Is there anything different from the finished episode? I´ve been doing some "Corporate Wars" edits for fun, but it´s difficult to make something coherent with that draft 
Can´t wait to get this release in Blu Ray to see what could do without having a big pixel when changing the aspect ratio.
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Archive
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Joined: 17 Nov 2001
Post Count: 6540
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:00 pm |
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| ChAnOoD : | | Is there anything different from the finished episode? |
It follows the main story pretty much. Some different dialogue here and there but mostly the same.
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RoboPimp
PIMPY SUPREME
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Post Count: 3124
Comment: "You dead wrong if ya think that pimpin' gon' die" - Snoop Dogg, P.I.M.P. (Remix)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:00 pm |
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| Archive : | I have the series bible as well as the episode 1 script, but I haven't uploaded them for the public yet.
Reasons is that these pages has been sent to the RoboDoc team for use in their series documentary. The Series Bible will be mostly exclusive to that until the doc is released. |
Damn, you really got your hands on the bible and now you're gonna hold out on us like that? Imagine if Moses had come down from the mountain empty handed. People would still be sacrificing their kids to Molech today!
Joking aside, it is a shame that you have access to such an elusive document but it is being tied up by obligations to another project. Especially since it is the RoboDoc and some of us were probably hoping to take a peek at that Series bible within our lifetimes. There still isn't even a release date for the main Documentary, let alone the bonus project that is supposedly coming later down the pipeline. I will be honest, I do not expect that we will ever see that team's documentary about the series. I don't imagine the main RoboDoc will make as significant an impact as they like at this point, and would be surprised if they even got out the sequels. They already started working on other unrelated projects before finishing this one and it seems they are already ready to move on So to hear some cool new piece of Robo history popped up but us hardcore fans can't see it because it is tied to another project being that will at best not be out for several years made by a team with a notoriously poor track record definitely feels like a letdown. I honestly can't say I was chomping at the bit to see this Series bible, but I would have liked to take a look and it does feel a bit disappointing to hear some cool new piece of RoboCop history was discovered, only to then learn that it is being purposefully withheld from the community who would appreciate it most.
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Sean_001
Vault Dweller
Joined: 20 Mar 2003
Post Count: 2192
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:33 am |
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| Archive : | Sean, I've sent you a message on FB.
I have the series bible as well as the episode 1 script, but I haven't uploaded them for the public yet.
Reasons is that these pages has been sent to the RoboDoc team for use in their series documentary. The Series Bible will be mostly exclusive to that until the doc is released. |
Thanks very much.
I'll take careful consideration in which items "I'd Like to Know More" about after this weekend's Meeting.
| ChAnOoD : | | By the way, I already told you on Instagram, but good work recreating that stuff. Looks amazing to see these logos so crisp and new! |
Thanks again. I appreciate all the kind words from everyone with my art. You guys see something I don't, but all artists are overly critical of their work.
| RoboPimp : | | I honestly can't say I was chomping at the bit to see this Series bible, but I would have liked to take a look and it does feel a bit disappointing to hear some cool new piece of RoboCop history was discovered, only to then learn that it is being purposefully withheld from the community who would appreciate it most. |
I can understand the reasons for secrecy, don't want to give too many spoilers away. If you don't mind my saying, for a guy who didn't like the series, you're sure feeling left out is a sign you are more than you let on.
----Sean
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RoboPimp
PIMPY SUPREME
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Post Count: 3124
Comment: "You dead wrong if ya think that pimpin' gon' die" - Snoop Dogg, P.I.M.P. (Remix)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:11 am |
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| Sean_001 : | | RoboPimp : | | I honestly can't say I was chomping at the bit to see this Series bible, but I would have liked to take a look and it does feel a bit disappointing to hear some cool new piece of RoboCop history was discovered, only to then learn that it is being purposefully withheld from the community who would appreciate it most. |
I can understand the reasons for secrecy, don't want to give too many spoilers away. If you don't mind my saying, for a guy who didn't like the series, you're sure feeling left out is a sign you are more than you let on. |
I don't mind you saying that at all and I'm happy to clear up your confusion. Obviously you have me mistaken for someone else, I'm RoboPimp, a diehard fan of RoboCop: the Series. I've been watching the show since it was on the air. Years later I found a VHS tape of "Officer Down" on sale for $3 which resparked my interest in RoboCop, leading me directly to the Archive many years ago. I still have that tape today as part of my shrine to RoboCop, and while I don't have them anymore, as a kid I had every figure from the Series, and most of the vehicles too. I've watched all the episodes on YouTube many times, and checked out the cropped "HD" remake on Tubi. I have commented on this very thread since the start, sharing my enthusiasm for the Series and my desire to see a nice DVD or Bluray package, and have stated my desire to buy the box set the day it comes out. Heck, whenever I talk to someone and Joe Walsh comes up I tell them about A Future to This Life. I'm not sure how much more a fan of the Series I can be. So clearly you were thinking of someone else who "didn't like the series" or maybe you were confused with my opinion of PD, which I did not like and have said many negative things about.
Sorry to get so far off topic, but I just want to make one thing clear: If you think I don't like RoboCop: The Series you must be Cray Z.
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Archive
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Joined: 17 Nov 2001
Post Count: 6540
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:23 am |
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Believe me, I would have rather posted it on the site right away but the way the interwebs are, the content would get a life of its own and would quickly get posted in other places without any ties to RoboDoc or the archive.
The idea is to bring as much new and cool stuff to RoboDoc as possible and showing everything now before release wouldn't be smart. I know they have a rough cut of the series doc which clocks in at an hour so it's something to look forward to.
I will post the table of content pages here later so you can at least see what the bible contains.
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2774
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:12 am |
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| RoboPimp : | | Years later I found a VHS tape of "Officer Down" on sale for $3 which resparked my interest in RoboCop |
Ah, nostalgia... I owned "RoboCop 6" on VHS, which had "Officer Down" as well, with "What Money Can´t Buy". Last year I got "RoboCop 5", and I still trying to get "RoboCop 4" (the pilot) to get the "whole collection". They released "RoboCop 4" in 1994, before the TV show aired here, and us, as kids, would speculate about what we would expect from that one. After the series aired I found these actors familiar, and later made the connection.
| RoboPimp : | | I had every figure from the Series, and most of the vehicles too. |
Tried to find the RoboCruiser, as it was some of the toys I always run into in the mall here, but it gets way too expensive.
Back on topic, I see there´s a lot of controversy about the aspect ratio changes on forums and such, but according to some HD/Blu Ray websites, pre-orders for this new edition are going strong. Which it´s cool, I guess.
As far as I know, Amazon has it only available on the US. Can´t track it here. I hope with all the Customs troubles we have in Europe we won´t have to pay more than 100 bucks to get this release.
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Zentron
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Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Post Count: 2022
Comment: Your move creep!!
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:59 pm |
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It'd be great if they could AI enhance the series to give us a truer HD experience!
_________________
 http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/1060/klfjustifiedancient.png
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Slash Man
O-L2
Joined: 04 Apr 2015
Post Count: 78
Comment: Stay out of trouble.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:49 am |
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On paper it seemed like a must-buy, but their announcement of changing the aspect ratio made me second guess that rather than rest assured. Just a little rant here, but this trend of modernizing classic media is really just an attempt to appeal to modern sensibilities at the risk of insulting hardcore fans. Some cases I've seen are colorizing black and white, redoing effects, redoing soundtracks, changing the color timing, and even remixing/remastering music. For something as niche as RoboCop: The Series, I don't think its wise to upset the fans.
Everyone jumped to the conclusion of the aspect ratio being cropped, so I believe an explanation is in order. I heard a possible explanation is that the film was actually shot in 16:9 originally, which would indeed be worthy of preserving. But without knowing which version has the most information preserved, I can't make a purchase.
Going with Blu-ray is a little perplexing. In theory they could fit a considerable amount more per disc than DVD... but it's the same number of discs as the DVD set.
As it stands, I'm probably going to go with the DVD set that hasn't made any detrimental edits. Cheaper price point and no loss of quality. Plus, who knows when this'll get released again? On the plus side, the cover art actually looks nice and era appropriate.
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2774
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:11 am |
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| Slash Man : | | For something as niche as RoboCop: The Series, I don't think its wise to upset the fans. |
I really want to get this one, but I´m afraid how it would look in widescreen. So far, all the videos they released are in the original aspect ratio.
It seems some people complained about the change to widescreen, and they replied:
| Quote: | | The series was originally produced in SD and we now have created a hi-rez version in 16x9 1.78 aspect ratio. We are aware that fans want the series in the original 4x3 aspect ratio for the BluRay release but the cost of creating another second hi-rez version in that ratio is cost prohibitive. Hope this clears up any concerns and we appreciate the feedback |
They´d need to show something from the Blu Ray edition.
| Slash Man : | | Everyone jumped to the conclusion of the aspect ratio being cropped, so I believe an explanation is in order. I heard a possible explanation is that the film was actually shot in 16:9 originally, which would indeed be worthy of preserving. |
They keep answering some questions:
| Quote: | | For the DVD, audio is Dolby Digital stereo, the aspect ratio is 16:9 pillar boxed 4:3 (1.33:1) which matches the original broadcast aspect ratio. For the Blu-ray, audio is LPCM stereo, the aspect ratio is 16:9 (1.77:1). The picture has been modified from its original broadcast aspect ratio to fill a 16:9 aspect ratio. Hope that answers your questions. Thank you for your interest. |
And they even claim that the image "won't be cropped".
So I don´t know how they handled the conversion. The best scenario would be having the whole series filmed (and edited!!) on widescreen, but I´m not sure that´d be the case. If not, it´d be impossible to change it without eating the top and bottom of the frame, unless, as people on the net said, the image would be "stretched". Which would look weird.
| Slash Man : | | As it stands, I'm probably going to go with the DVD set that hasn't made any detrimental edits. Cheaper price point and no loss of quality. |
I have to think about it. I´d love to have a crisp edition of The Series on HD, but only if the widescreen edition doesn´t cut vital information in the process (texts, etc). Plus, taking this edition to Europe would cost around 100 bucks due to customs and these kind of things, so it´d be a little pricey to my tastes.
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Slash Man
O-L2
Joined: 04 Apr 2015
Post Count: 78
Comment: Stay out of trouble.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:15 pm |
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They were nice enough to respond to my inquiries as well, but I pretty much got the same response (emphasizing that it's not cropped). Judging by the wording, the aspect ratio had to be altered to become 16:9. The only explanation I can think of is that it's been stretched (awaiting confirmation on that).
I don't think they're being dishonest, but I think they lack some of the technical knowledge to really explain exactly what's going on here.
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2774
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:58 pm |
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I´ve seen some videos about aspect conversion on popular shows, and can´t wait to know how they did this one.
The best example is Star Trek: The Next Generation. They spend around 5 million doing the remaster, where they recreated FX and such. And while they didn´t want to change the aspect ratio to widescreen you can notice the new compositions have a little bit more of info in both sides. There´s the Seinfeld one, which we already discussed here, where they cropped the image, yet they used a little bit of info on both sides as well, and then there´s Buffy The Vampire Slayer, which had fans annoyed since they released it on HD. You can see crew members, cameras and lights on both sides, plus a pretty bad and generic restoration which destroys the mood and lightning of the original, changing filters and even changing lightning to the point some night scenes appeared as day ones due to that. I heard The X-Files had some changes as well, but couldn´t find anything about it.
| Slash Man : | | I don't think they're being dishonest, but I think they lack some of the technical knowledge to really explain exactly what's going on here. |
That´s why I think they´d need to release something with the new aspect ratio. The DVD intro they put in Vimeo looked nice for a SD video (it doesn´t look the same in Youtube, not sure if it compress them way too much), and if they did a decent HD translation a video would help them. Unless the cropping is too bad to make people complain again. There are a bunch of people demanding a 4:3 HD version, but it seems it won´t happen. Which made me think: Wouldn´t they have a 4:3 HD version in the first place? I don´t know how these remasters work, but if the original is in 4:3, shouldn´t they have a remaster done in that format, then put it on widescreen?
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Stan The Man
Bah Concepts Division
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 7025
Comment: I'm the guy in Old Archive.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 2:50 am |
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| ChAnOoD : | I´ve seen some videos about aspect conversion on popular shows, and can´t wait to know how they did this one.
The best example is Star Trek: The Next Generation. They spend around 5 million doing the remaster, where they recreated FX and such. And while they didn´t want to change the aspect ratio to widescreen you can notice the new compositions have a little bit more of info in both sides. |
Indeed there's a bit more, but it's still mainly a 4;3 ratio, which I found odd given their remaster since they shot the show on 35mm and with the work already putting in and its prevalence as a still-popular streaming show on current widescreen TVs/monitors it was a prime candidate to do widescreen, or so I would think. Which leads us to..
| Quote: | | I heard The X-Files had some changes as well, but couldn´t find anything about it. |
They did a wholesale remaster of it too, and I would believe going back to the originally-shot footage because all of it was also shot on film I believe. They had actually originally aired about the last third of the show in 16:9 anyway (well for stations and TVs that could do it), just extended it to the rest of it. That said they did do some up-scaling on it and a bit of a cleanup, certainly looks a bit sharper than it did. I know this because I screencapped all the featured firearms for the whole OG series for the IMFDB a few years back, both in SD and again when they upgraded the show to HD. Check it -
Note these are not completely 'raw' shots - I did do some extra sharpening via the screencapping image program I use for detail on the guns, customary for our site. But the level of sharpening should be the same or damn close between the two caps. All the other stuff should be unaltered though.
Anyway as you can see - and as practically equivalent to nearly all of 4:3 to 16:9 (and vice versa) versions of the same footage there is a bit of loss top/down - Always seems to be. BUT its not not much, and more added on sides. In some other shots/scenes/episodes I believe there's less top/bottom cropping still. You'll notice the shot is also not 'stretched'. Bottom-line IMO they did that job pretty much right.
Having said that the concern here is what they have done on other shows -Just doing a very quick-and-dirty crude chopping of the existing 4:3 transfer off top and/or bottom for 16:9 and calling it a day - no actual extra to the frame and no real enhancements. IIRC that's what they did for one of the Prime Directives releases. And THAT is what I believe is the fear for this Series release. And frankly all this continuing vague talk about it doesn't really alleviate this concern much if at all. Now yes seems its being enhanced visually but are we gonna get an actual 16:9 framing or just a hard chop of the existing 4:3 footage is whats up in the air right now.
| Quote: | | Slash Man : | | I don't think they're being dishonest, but I think they lack some of the technical knowledge to really explain exactly what's going on here. |
That´s why I think they´d need to release something with the new aspect ratio. The DVD intro they put in Vimeo looked nice for a SD video (it doesn´t look the same in Youtube, not sure if it compress them way too much), and if they did a decent HD translation a video would help them. Unless the cropping is too bad to make people complain again. There are a bunch of people demanding a 4:3 HD version, but it seems it won´t happen. Which made me think: Wouldn´t they have a 4:3 HD version in the first place? I don´t know how these remasters work, but if the original is in 4:3, shouldn´t they have a remaster done in that format, then put it on widescreen? |
Exactly. A showing of some of this footage - How the product will actually look - would answer this question.
As for doing a HD 4:3 job I would say possible. But for going back to the originally-shot footage - If it was shot on film or otherwise in a wide format already having to start from there to re-work it and then again cut it sideways for a 4:3 aspect might seem a bit 'going backwards' perhaps, because they're already starting with a wide frame anyway and well, 4:3 is not looked on much in the viewing landscape today with nearly every TV and monitor being a widescreen one.
Even so I too would prefer just a restoration and sharpening of the 4:3 footage if the alternative is they're gonna hard chop it just to have a widescreen ratio.
End of the day all just speculation until we finally get a look at the damn thing.
_________________
I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!
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