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ChAnOoD
C-L2
 
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 1226
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  Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:22 pm |
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I still thinking about RoboCop the same old way. I adore the first one, but sadly, I canīt stand some things from the sequels. RoboCop 2 is too much for me, all living in a "nasty city", with "nasty bad guys" and even "nasty good guys". Itīs Miller making things more exaggerated than ever. I love when he does it on comics, but it doesnīt feel the same on movies (the same happens for me in Sin City: Marv can survive after hundreds of car beatings). Also, the score feels "nasty" compared to the soundtrack of the first, and I canīt stand the second "death" of Murphy. I barely see RoboCop 2, and I think I didnīt see all the movie in years (I only put some scenes).
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darrell89
R-L1
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Post Count: 8
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:24 pm |
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i saw the original first and loved it, then i saw robocop 2 and loved that, then i saw the 3rd i liked that too, bearing in mind i was young when i saw 3
i hold the first two dear to my heart, can still watch them over and over
but my opinion has changed on robo3 now im older and wiser, its lame but watchable
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KidGoesWild
L-L1
Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Post Count: 451
Comment: I type it, you think it
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:56 am |
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Loved the first one for its seriousness and adult approach. Loved the second one for the same reasons plus the robot brawl of course. The 3rd one I was confused by because it didnt have the elements that I loved about the series in the first place and felt like a saturday morning family movie instead. I was dissapointed with it even then
Years and even decades later, I love the first one for its depth and emotional impact, the second one for its grittiness and cruelty taken to the next level and I love both of them for having a genre of their own - they have a feel that no other movie has. The 3rd one I think is a joke loaded with plotholes and depraved of logic, shamelessly trying to suck up to the fans of the original
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RoboTrap
OmniCon - A Silver Future
Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Post Count: 420
Comment: RoboCop: The Future's Silver Lining
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:35 am |
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First has only gotten better with time as far as I'm concerned.
The second one becomes worse with each viewing. It's just such an absolute mess on every level that there's zero suspension of disbelief.
Robo3 is... Robo3. It might be watered down, but at least it tries to tell a story, unlike Robo2.
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LuanaTF
RoboMommy
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Post Count: 154
Comment: Always around robots, real and fictional :P
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:19 pm |
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Since I've become emotionally stronger, and can stand visual violence more, I must say that I'm really enjoying watching the Robocop and Robocop 2 movies. 
I've been stuck with the cartoon/TV series/Robocop 3 for too many years; since that was all I could watch back then.
Oh, this is freedom 
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Stan The Man
Part Man, Part Sheep, All RoboCop-Fan
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 4498
Comment: The one, the original, the only - OCP Police 001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:43 pm |
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| RoboTrap : | | First has only gotten better with time as far as I'm concerned. |
Well said.
| Trap : | | The second one becomes worse with each viewing. It's just such an absolute mess on every level that there's zero suspension of disbelief. |
Look at you - You got a $500 suit on, you're still a low-life.
Yeah, but I look good.
Anyway, I've given my take on R1. R3 I never thought much of before, and don't think any more of these days. I've always found it lacked the same feel as the previous movies, even when I was younger, and it suffers greatly for it. If anything, I've felt stronger about that as time has gone on. RoboCop is a harsh, adult, R-rated universe and dumbing that down for any reason is a mistake, plain and simple.
Robo 2 I've always enjoyed fairly well, though I've always in some way or other known it to be the more 'visual' film of the three, like my little above quote alludes to. The story ain't great, but I don't find it boring, nor fucked-up enough to make me cringe much. Besides, it is the only true on-screen Robo continuation by keeping Weller, the dark, graphic violence and content and a similar atmosphere and feel, not to mention giving a worthy adversary to fight.
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Mephisto
DC-L1
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Post Count: 2122
Comment: What's bugging ya Meph? Dynamite. Dynamite's bugging me.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:10 pm |
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Has my opinion changed of him?
Nah.
He's still a Bad MotherFucker. 
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Zentron
:
Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Post Count: 1360
Comment: Your move creep!!
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:08 am |
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Of Robo, no, the movies, yes!! My first taste of Robo was R2, which was brought over by our baby sitter at the time (not for me, but the younger squib.... though I guess slighty me to  ) and I watched it then. I liked it, but wanted to see the original, but unfortunately, when that did happen, it was the 'Edited For TV Version', so no 'fuck' words, not even 'asshole' was left un-touched ('asshole' was replaced with 'airhead'
).... still no I dea why they decided upon any of this, as it was past the UK 9pm 'Watershed', so I had to wait for several years until I bought the VHS to watch the original.
The third movie...... the moment I saw that girl, I knew it was going to be bad. Though saying that, when I saw the Splatterpunks, I knew it was going to be bad! I think the third movie was doomed from the moment the head guys uttered 'PG-13' as the age rating they wanted for the movie.
Overall, I love the first two as much as I did then, but more so now, as we have had the opportunity to watch the first, as the director intended it to be... the rest, I'll just pass off as a bad dream!
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artuditu
mio Cid
Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Post Count: 938
Comment: sermo vulgaris
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:10 am |
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When I was a kid I found R2 more entertaining to watch, more of a spectacle, it was colorful, with more robots, the city felt like much bigger, the crime wave looked more violent and rampant, so the action... BUT I always felt the first film was much more powerful, dramatic and authentic, maybe because of its simplicity, it was straightforward, and its characters also looked more real.
Anyway I loved those times when the sequels were so different one from each other (Alien, Predator, Batman, Terminator...), in today sagas you can hardly distinguish a sequel from the previous film (Spiderman, Transformers, Pirates of the Caribbean, Hellboy...)
About my opinion changing for the first film, I remember the first time I watched it in DVD, I probably hadn't watched it for one or two years, and the filming locations looked so cheap and low budget to me that I became disillusioned, like if I had to stop fooling myself. Luckily that lost of faith was very short, the next times I watched it again I recovered my fascination, the story captivated me again, the action made me thrill, and the realistic locations, and even the low budget, gave the film a more authentic and praiseworthy feeling.
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KidGoesWild
L-L1
Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Post Count: 451
Comment: I type it, you think it
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:15 am |
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| RoboTrap : | First has only gotten better with time as far as I'm concerned.
The second one becomes worse with each viewing. It's just such an absolute mess on every level that there's zero suspension of disbelief.
Robo3 is... Robo3. It might be watered down, but at least it tries to tell a story, unlike Robo2. |
| ElectricSoul : | i
Robo 2 felt like the slick,hollywood blockbuster type of movie...let's throw $50 million at it and it'll be great (at the time a lot of money for a movie)...storyline and acting,no longer having to be the backbone to move the story and film foward in a satisfatory way,took a backseat to more mayhem,more effects,more stunts,and more explosions...
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Im basically repeating myself, but:
R2 follows the formula of the first movie closely. We get the over the top gore, language and violence, the ridiculous commercials and the exploration of Robo's character, yet it still stands as a movie on its own and not a copy if the original. All that plus all the characters from the first movie like "Old man", Johnson and naturally, officer Anne Lewis. I like How Irvin Kershner explored the character even more, and actually showed us the meeting between Robo and Murphy's wife. And of course, Peter Weller again gave a great performance
I see R2 is dimmed as mindless action flick here, and its anything but. An even wider ground is explored here. The idea of a juvenile killer alone raised many eyebrows at the time. The characters are very well developed: if you think about it, their actions and addictions was what largely contributed to their demise. R2 is much more gory than the first one and the villains are much more cruel because theyre completely insane. Live operations? *shrugs*. Voodoo whackos?
His internal struggle is also explored as I previously said. He meets his wife, hes spying on her. Theres an obvious emotional conflict there. I disagree with what some said about Robo just shrugging it off after the meeting. i thought the message was pretty clear: he decided that for her best he should let go of her. Besides, theres only so much you can fit into the movie, and the plot needed to progress. The original already told the story of his emotional struggles, R2 continued it and tied the knot very nicely in a very nice place
It touches the worst nightmares of society exploring a lot of new moral ground and presenting a new, even darker and more brutal view on the darkest side of reality. Shows Robo and others making a lot of very complicated moral choices, for the audience as well (like the issue of Hob's death - is the sight of a scared and dying child enough to forgive for what he did? Families working in drug factories with kids - a lot of adult new ground explored here)
As for the music, its done in a very classical way. Its sounds a lot like the classic 1950s scores and even has some elements of John Williams
DVDVERDICT said:
"It's a masterful amalgam of sci-fi and comic book influences; in that respect, it's one of the best films of its genre. It takes much of the essence of the first film and distills it into something potentially far less palatable for mainstream viewers, stripping away anything that isn't hardcore. If Robocop can be enjoyed almost as two very separate films at once—the standard action film and the twisted sci-fi satire—then Robocop 2 is a clearer hybrid of the two."
And I fully agree
Robocop 3 came out when I was around 9 and didnt like it then, dont like it now. It seemed really out of place and 10 minutes into the movie I knew something's wrong - it didnt feel like Robocop movie at all. while the first two were watched by adults and later aired very very late at night on TV, R3 was a movie that was squeezed between movies like The Meteor Man and viewed as such. I remember nobody cared about it and after R3 it was actually a shame to admit that you like the franchise. I know many people who dropped it and never mentioned it again and switched to other franchises.
Im not saying gore would change it. Crap story is a crap story. Adult approach and a SERIOUS approach would change it. And a completely different script. Seriously, theres not an ounce of logic and sense in nearly every scene and everyone has things and equipment needed always laying right next to them, its like a cartoon
Do I completely dislike it or hate it? no. Hate is a strong word. I actually even think the shift from adult, thought provoking gory satire into morning kids movie is quite a surreal and such misfired move thats its interesting just for that fact alone. But without that and as a standalone movie, it has nothing to offer me and its like watching a he-man movie from the 80s. Its so cartoonish that you just cant get into it
Even Basil's score was a major disappointment. I was shocked - SHOCKED when I found out that he scored the 3rd one. For the most part, its like a dumbed down and simplified version of the first movies' score, with lots of great cues and parts missing, and the ones that are repeated verbatim do not fit the uninspired and bland scenes. Basil was always great, but with all due respect to him, his score on R3 brought almost nothing new to the table. Just like many other elements of the movie (mirroring scenes, cinematography), it was a contrived attempt to recreate and remain in the shadow of the original. Its merely the original score but without keyboards (and I feel the loss of keyboards is really evident and hurting) and roughly simplified, with just a few original cues like "Resistance"
Im not alone in this. DVDTown.com described R3's score as "not just forgettable but downright annoying"
I like DVDVERDICT's review
"Robocop 3 finally lets the series down. It's more than just bad in terms of the franchise (like, say, Alien: Resurrection—not a bad movie, just a disappointing Alien movie)—it's a bad film all around.
The fundamental problem with Robocop 3 is that, even beyond its PG-13 rating, it has been made specifically for young boys—it's Robocop for kids. Everything has been dialed down to the lowest common denominator, which would help explain the repeated moments of melodrama (every time a "good" character dies, he or she gets an impassioned closing line set to sad/swelling music), overblown sentiment (a Curly Sue-esque young orphan girl plays far too large a role in the proceedings), and cheap humor—who knew Robocop had been programmed to rattle off so many awful one-liners?
The film feels terribly flat—on screen is non-stop spectacle, and yet there's no connection to any of it. That may be because Robocop 3 has no real story to tell, just a series of action beats, once again designed to elicit gasps of "Cooooool!" from 13-year old boys. It's a major departure from the slyness and sophistication of the first two films."
And Robocop acts like a robot who never was human. And reaction to Lewis' death is the prime example of that. He remains stoic all the time and talks like an automat to the end. There are no traces of any human at all in his character. The robo that accepted his fate was in R2 - he had all of the signature Murphy character and wittiness, but accepted what he was physically. In R1, he was a lost man in the machine. In R3 he is a machine that doesnt even understand human behavior and thinking and talks like a mentally illed person or GPS ("You look like you became friendly with a tank", "I dont have many friends" - ah, that was a joke Robo. Or "Are you ok?", "My primary functions are 93%" - ah robo, this is a little girl asking if youre fine)
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RoboTrap
OmniCon - A Silver Future
Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Post Count: 420
Comment: RoboCop: The Future's Silver Lining
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:10 am |
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| KidGoesWild : | | R2 follows the formula of the first movie closely. We get the over the top gore, language and violence, the ridiculous commercials and the exploration of Robo's character, yet it still stands as a movie on its own and not a copy if the original. |
That's the main problem for me, is that it does attempt to follow the first film by relying heavily on social satire and ultraviolence, but with absolutely no nuance or genuine humor. It's all heavy handed and dumbed down, instead of corny and watered down like RC3.
And I most definitely do not feel that it works as a stand alone film. The first film spent a lot of time ensuring that the viewer accepted all of the inherent wackiness of a film called RoboCop. They established that a purely mechanical solution to crime wasn't feasible, that creating Robo was a time-consuming process, and revealed the final RoboSuit in small snippets before the final reveal and then, of course, his first night out, with a fantastic balance between badassery and ridiculousness that hit all of the right notes.
In RC2, he's just thrown right at you, spouts a few one-liners, and we're supposed to accept it because it's violent/funny, and then take it all seriously in the very next sequence of the film.
| KidGoesWild : | | I like How Irvin Kershner explored the character even more, and actually showed us the meeting between Robo and Murphy's wife. And of course, Peter Weller again gave a great performance |
I don't feel that there was any exploration of Robo's character at all, in any sense. We get a few snippets of Robo moping about, then he meets his wife, and then the entire thread is dropped from the film with absolutely no emotional closure. It was cold and sterile, and served no purpose other than to string the audience along with a cheap gut punch.
Even Michael Bay would have bothered to insert Murphy's family into the final scenes of the film for Robo to come to their rescue and provide closure.
| KidGoesWild : | | The characters are very well developed: if you think about it, their actions and addictions was what largely contributed to their demise. |
Can't agree with this either. Faxx made no sense at all! What was her big plan? If she gives Cain the Nuke, he has no reason to comply (since apparently nobody had the foresight to program him with any Prime Directives) and if she doesn't, he goes fucking crazy and would be incapable of complying. Maybe if she gave him metered doses to calm him, but that was never even brought up in the film.
And reprogramming Robo? To what end? To make him less effective and make Cain seem like the better alternative? Then why were no efforts made to reprogram him again after he wiped out the Directives he was given? The only reason she was even able to use Cain is because Robo nabbed him. You'd think that she'd have made any comment at any point in the film that actually explained what she was trying to accomplish, because from where I'm sitting, her entire character was merely used to allow retarded plot contrivances without regard for logic or believability.
And I'm still trying to figure out why those cops went back to work after Robo fried himself. I mean, if Robo being stripped apart didn't do it, why would him going back to normal get them to drop the picket signs?
| KidGoesWild : | | Shows Robo and others making a lot of very complicated moral choices, for the audience as well (like the issue of Hob's death - is the sight of a scared and dying child enough to forgive for what he did? Families working in drug factories with kids - a lot of adult new ground explored here) |
That isn't being adult, that's using disturbing images for pure shock value.
And it's damned insulting to the audience to have Hob's death played out the way it was. Weller's acting, Kershner's direction and Rosenman's score all worked together to try and make us feel sorry for this ruthless, fucked up, murdering kid. Just because he's a kid. I'm sorry, but I find it offensive that anyone involved in this film actually thought the audience would feel bad about this psychopath kicking the bucket.
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KidGoesWild
L-L1
Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Post Count: 451
Comment: I type it, you think it
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:38 am |
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| RoboTrap : |
And I most definitely do not feel that it works as a stand alone film. The first film spent a lot of time ensuring that the viewer accepted all of the inherent wackiness of a film called RoboCop. They established that a purely mechanical solution to crime wasn't feasible, that creating Robo was a time-consuming process, and revealed the final RoboSuit in small snippets before the final reveal and then, of course, his first night out, with a fantastic balance between badassery and ridiculousness that hit all of the right notes. |
Well, a lot of fans cite Robo's entrance in R2 as the best one and very effective. Besides, he already exists there and the character is already established, so why spent half of a movie building tension? It was done for the new character, and done in an absolutely stunning way (Robocain). Plus, thats not what I really meant. I meant that watching R2 you dont have to see the first one to understand it and most importantly, its not a shadow or recreation or extension of the original. Its something fresh yet still with the same feel and same universe. Being also a huge Jim Cameron fan, I always praise sequels for taking risks and different directions. R2 is its own animal yet continuing the same story with the same characters, something I surely was thrilled to see
| Quote: | | In RC2, he's just thrown right at you, spouts a few one-liners, and we're supposed to accept it because it's violent/funny, and then take it all seriously in the very next sequence of the film. |
I didnt hear any one liners, only the continuation of Murphy's witty tough cop character. "Think it over creep" - "Your move creep". Nothing new here, unless you count what he says in the first movie as one liners too. Its simply Murphy's character and we see a nice continuation of it here
| Quote: | | I don't feel that there was any exploration of Robo's character at all, in any sense. We get a few snippets of Robo moping about, then he meets his wife, and then the entire thread is dropped from the film with absolutely no emotional closure. It was cold and sterile, and served no purpose other than to string the audience along with a cheap gut punch. |
If thats how you feel than too bad but that doesnt mean there wasnt any exploration because there was and you just mentioned it. He meets his wife, hes spying on her. Theres an obvious emotional conflict there. I always wondered about him meeting his wife. I tohught it was great, he seemed almost as if hes gonna break when they kept telling him that he has nothing to offer her. For her good he told her goodbye and then he was obviously still taken by it. While it wasnt necessary since the first movie already told the emotional side and internal struggle, it was nice to tie a knot completely on that here in the sequel in a strong and emotional way. First hes getting coned and emotionally tortured and then he has to say farewell to his wife. I thought the bits when hes spying on Ellen were great too with some great music as well. Gives the movie a heart
And I disagree about Robo just shrugging it off after the meeting. i thought the message was pretty clear: he decided that for her best he should let go of her. We understand he did it for her good, plus I always felt that he's still a little depressed and still had it in his mind afterwards, particularly during the club scene. "As good as money can buy". We get that typical Murphy humor, but he still seems down and sad during that scene.
| Quote: | | Even Michael Bay would have bothered to insert Murphy's family into the final scenes of the film for Robo to come to their rescue and provide closure. |
Again, that was the continuation of the leftover story from the first movie. It got resolved in the beginning because it had to get resolved. We wanted to see him meeting his wife and see what he will decide and why. R2 wasnt about internal struggle, it wasnt just copying the first movie's story which was about his emotional journey. It simply touched upon it, tied all the knots from the first one and moved on. It was obvious Murphy wouldnt just drop it, and I think the reason why he decided to leave and forget his family was really good and the execution of him taking that decision was very nicely done too
| Quote: | | Faxx made no sense at all! What was her big plan? |
I thought it was pretty obvious - use the old man and get a nice position of power because of him. yet another continuation of one of the themes from the original about trying to gain power in the world of big corporations
| Quote: | | If she gives Cain the Nuke, he has no reason to comply (since apparently nobody had the foresight to program him with any Prime Directives) and if she doesn't, he goes fucking crazy and would be incapable of complying. Maybe if she gave him metered doses to calm him, but that was never even brought up in the film. |
First of all, the nuke would end sooner or later. Secondly, she had the remote
| Quote: | | And reprogramming Robo? To what end? To make him less effective and make Cain seem like the better alternative? |
No, that wasnt the reason. They had to help him because of the public relations, so they had an alternative way - fix robocop but in a way that he wont be able to truly clean up the streets and wont interfere with the plan
| Quote: | | Then why were no efforts made to reprogram him again after he wiped out the Directives he was given? |
Because OCP couldnt know so fast about Robo loosing directives. Besides, they couldnt care less - it was too late and the city was already going private
| Quote: | | The only reason she was even able to use Cain is because Robo nabbed him. You'd think that she'd have made any comment at any point in the film that actually explained what she was trying to accomplish, because from where I'm sitting, her entire character was merely used to allow retarded plot contrivances without regard for logic or believability. |
I already explained what she wanted. In addition to gaining power she was also a little sick in the head and enjoyed her baby killing everyone around as shown in the movie. Another example of a complex character
| Quote: | | And I'm still trying to figure out why those cops went back to work after Robo fried himself. I mean, if Robo being stripped apart didn't do it, why would him going back to normal get them to drop the picket signs? |
Sounds like you havent seen the movie. Robo basiclaly grabbed them by the balls and said what Reed would normally say, that theyre cops and their job is to protect this city and that a murderer Cain is out there. They finally realized again what their duty is and also wanted to get the guy who stripped Robo. As for the second point, how could they know where Cain and his gang is? Plus, it was Robo's speech and attitude that motivated them
| Quote: | | KidGoesWild : | | Shows Robo and others making a lot of very complicated moral choices, for the audience as well (like the issue of Hob's death - is the sight of a scared and dying child enough to forgive for what he did? Families working in drug factories with kids - a lot of adult new ground explored here) |
That isn't being adult, that's using disturbing images for pure shock value. |
No its not. It happens all the time in poor cities. Families have to work this way to feed kids. Just like the original, R2 shows us the darkest side of reality
| Quote: | | And it's damned insulting to the audience to have Hob's death played out the way it was. Weller's acting, Kershner's direction and Rosenman's score all worked together to try and make us feel sorry for this ruthless, fucked up, murdering kid. Just because he's a kid. I'm sorry, but I find it offensive that anyone involved in this film actually thought the audience would feel bad about this psychopath kicking the bucket. |
Its weird that you take it so black and white and now I see why you dont "get" the movie. It isnt so black and white. The first two RoboCop movies had villains that were developed in such way that we absolutely hated them. They were vicious. Immoral. R2 pushed the envelope even further - we got all that...but in a kid. That alone raises many questions and issues - can we hate a child? Can we want painful death and revenge on him? But we do!... but we shouldnt..we cant! And on and on. Then theres the thing with his redemption during his death, wheter we give it to him or not. Love him or hate him, but theres no denying that he's a very good metaphor and device for many things in the story, and thats coming from a former student of film academy.
"Over the course of an hour and a half, Hob has gone from being a villain to being an anti-hero. Not many action films offer that kind of character arc even for adult characters." - proyouthpages.com website provides an interesting analysis on Hob (http://www.proyouthpages.com/robocop2.html). The character alone has a lot to it and theres lot more then what the site above touches
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Johan
Archive Dictator
Joined: 17 Nov 2001
Post Count: 5562
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:52 am |
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KidGoesWild, good post! That is pretty much spot on how i see it.
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KidGoesWild
L-L1
Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Post Count: 451
Comment: I type it, you think it
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:54 am |
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Great minds think alike!
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Has your opinion of Robocop changed over time?
