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WeKilledYou DIRECTIVE 249 Don't be oversensitive to the hostility and negativity of others
Joined: 15 Jun 2011
Post Count: 798
Comment: I know you. You're dead!
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Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:35 pm |
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I also liked the way Lewis was written in that she had sex appeal, but it wasn't from her dressing skimpy or acting like a skank. She was pretty, smart, strong, independant, but believable. She was still human and made mistakes.
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JadeETC Regular at rigatoni feeds.
Joined: 22 Feb 2014
Post Count: 171
Comment: Mind if I...zip this up?
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Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:30 am |
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Lewis is HOT, Lisa is not. _________________
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LuanaTF RoboMommy
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Post Count: 225
Comment: Always around robots, real and fictional
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Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:06 am |
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I liked Dash's post from 2011. I agree with his views.
Anyway, I have to admit I liked both characters, even though Lewis... well, she's Lewis, Robo's partner from the start. As Archive says, I think she wasn't developed well as a character, though, a luck that Madigan had in the series (but that's what a series is for, other than storytelling; with a series you have all the room to develop characters).
I could imagine Madigan being one of the colleagues of Lewis and Robo, because she's a good character. But I can only see Lewis as Robo's partner.
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Stan The Man Bah Concepts Division
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 7021
Comment: I'm the guy in Old Archive.
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Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:15 pm |
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JadeETC : | Lewis is HOT, Lisa is not. |
Lol first cut Robo and now this... Well, if you say so, anyway. I still think Dash put it though.
That said, (and I believe Dash, myself and even others have mentioned this before in this very thread), it should be kept in mind that Madigan is essentially actually just a slightly modified Lewis, and not really a different character, so it's not a fair and proper comparison really.
In that regard though, have to give the nod to the character's she's continuing on from, so that plus the other points - Lewis of course. _________________ I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!
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RegalSin ;
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Post Count: 73
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Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:43 am |
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Madigan and Lewis are the same characters, but Madigan, is Lewis after she became a detective, and is not a regular officer. So her attitude is more relaxed. I mean she is badarse still but we are not talking about a movie.
A movie is suppose to be a TV series, minimized for one hour or two. Meaning they had to be picky to give Lewis, correct lines. So Madigan is the not so extreme Lewis, or the lines she did not use.
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TheVindicator R-L3
Joined: 13 Nov 2013
Post Count: 22
Comment: "They thought they took his life...now he wants theirs."
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Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:55 am |
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After watching the Series recently..I am very torn on this issue. But at the moment I am giving the edge to surprisingly enough...
Magigan. Yep I said it. I think Yvette Nipar was a better partner than Nancy Allen. Why? Well she has more to do for one. She also did not choose to be in a RoboCop film only if her character was going to die. Which when I found out about that I was pissed. Lewis doesn't even die a heroic death in RoboCop 3. She just stands there and gets shot. She isn't as bad as Robo in that scene though since he just stands there like a moron not even trying to get in the way of the gunshots to protect his close friend..God RoboCop 3 is awful!
Like I said..Madigan has more to her character. Maybe if Lewis had more screen time in the films and if we knew a lot about her I would give the edge to her. But Lewis has next to none. We know nothing about her other than that she's Murphy's partner. That's it.
With Madigan you really get to know her quite well over the span of the series. You know she's tough, but she's also smart, and she has her flaws too. She went through addiction in one episode that dealt with the No Gain diet pills. She's every bit as spunky and tough as Nancy Allen's Lewis, but in my opinion it's the character development that gives her the edge. Not a large one but a slim victory.
And this is surprising for me to even admit this right now. I gave The Series no chance when I was getting ready to watch it for the first time. I thought it was going to be suck city. But I am really happy that I was proven wrong, because I have discovered what is in my opinion a well written, well executed tv show that is also a lot of fun to watch. And Madigan is most definitely part of the reason why.
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Stan The Man Bah Concepts Division
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 7021
Comment: I'm the guy in Old Archive.
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Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:36 am |
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The Series definitely does have it's good points, it's worth a watch, even if you're a diehard R1/Verhoeven purist.. That said, I believe it was said by Allen herself that while she didn't wanna work in the third film she didn't prefer her character getting killed either - That was how the movie did it, she didn't ask for that, she just didn't wanna be in the film without Weller.
Back to point, I will grant that we indeed don't know a lot about Lewis in the films. Now I think she could have been made a bit more significant than the films showed.. Even then though there's not much room in the movies to develop the character, as compared to the TV Series. Again, I don't think it's entirely a fair comparison. _________________ I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!
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Junko Sgt-L1*
Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Post Count: 152
Comment: I'm a Japanese woman who loves to draw and dance. Check my robo artwork, please!
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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:14 am |
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I have seen the Series maybe just once or twice before, so I don't remember about Madigan well...
As the most of members already know, I have drawn Robo&Lewis in my comics for quite long time,
of course I like Lewis better.
In fact, I like Lewis in R1 the best, then in Marvel Comics and Novels.
As many members mentioned already, her character underdeveloped after R1, and I thought so as well.
Personally, I don't like her hairstyles in R2&R3...Looks older and not attractive for me, unfortunately.
I wanted her especially, in R2, to care Robo more softly and gently...
I even felt she looked cold attitude a little to Robo in the movie R2, couldn't see any emotional connection between them..
Of course, she is a strong and kick ass female cop when she's on duty,
but when she's with Robo, I want her to be a "woman" for treating Robo.
In contrast, in the novel, she is so nice, sweet and feminine to him, and I really like her in that.
So, I understand some fans can't see them in romantic angle by watching only the movies.
Even me, I can't imagine that in the movies.
The romantic world of Robo&Lewis is for only in comics or novels, I think.
Anyway, I think my Lewis is based on the novel, and just wanna develop her character more in my drawing.
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AlexRobo O-L3
Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Post Count: 106
Comment: "You gotta ask yourself one question, ED209, do you feel lucky?"
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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:09 pm |
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I too think Lewis was underused in the RoboCop sequels and we could have learned a lot more about her like how she lived outside of her job, her friends and also her history as an Old Detroit policewoman (her CV, commendations, etc.). Although in RoboCop 3, she lets on that her brother hasn't spoken to her for some time meaning that they are not very close. I also wonder if she had any kids herself like Murphy who had a son.
Whenever I used to watch this, I always thought this is what Lewis must have been like before she met Murphy.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xu7dwd_gina-gershon-in-sweet-revenge-1987_shortfilms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ7Lkl_Ym74
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Silicon Knight R-L3
Joined: 29 Jul 2013
Post Count: 21
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Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:13 am |
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Lewis from the first RoboCop is really one of the most underrated sci-fi heroines - she's not mentioned as often as Ripley or Sarah Connor. True, she's not as central to the plot as those are in their franchises, but she was a great character.. Yes, she was a bit underdeveloped in R2, and one of the most stupid things in R3 was killing her off. If Murphy had anything close to being a true friend, it was Lewis.
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Stan The Man Bah Concepts Division
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 7021
Comment: I'm the guy in Old Archive.
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Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:45 am |
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Agree wholeheartedly with you guys about the sequels lagging and downplaying the Lewis character and her relationship with Murphy, particularly R2 - I always thought it was one of its big problems. And it's a shame because it's really something that a sequel should have taken the opportunity to build on. Doesn't need a lot at all - I myself wouldn't have asked for much, just a good exchange or two and a couple bits here and there. We're talking about adding maybe five minutes to the film.
The brother mentioned in R3 was also a point in R2 originally - He was a trucker and she learned how to drive big-rig trucks from him. That was essential as, in the prior script, she used a big-rig to smash into RoboCAIN at the end, rather than the APC we see in the film now. A little thing like that would have gone a long way really in helping her character be more significant, and hardly would have been a detriment to the film itself. But it didn't happen that way, so what can ya do..
Madigan had better opportunity to develop - Being in a TV series, there's room to fill and go into development and background on characters, especially over time. As the Lewis character didn't really have that chance, again, that's where I think the comparison is a bit unfair. _________________ I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!
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KidGoesWild L-L3
Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Post Count: 663
Comment: I type it, you think it
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Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:33 am |
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Hmm, Im not sure if I can agree with you guys on the underdevelopment of the Lewis character in the sequel. The first movie developed characters beautifully without really dwelling on their lives or any personal details. Heck, we barely knew anything about Murphy other than that he had a wife and son and that he liked westerns and imitated western gun tricks. Thats why I always say how amazing it is that with so little information, characters can be defined so well just with their behaviour
Lewis was the same, she was just there, she didnt blab about ex husband, her previous jobs or moving out of some city etc as some character would in other movies, she was just there, and she was just herself and that was enough, and I feel the same thing translated into sequels
In the second one she obviously cares about Murph when he gets thrashed to pieces, and shes loyally still on duty even during the police strike. In the deleted shower scenes shes shown as feeling pity for Robo
In the third, well, shes just being herself, concerned about Murph and standing for whats right
__________
http://robocopmovies.blogspot.com/
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Junko Sgt-L1*
Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Post Count: 152
Comment: I'm a Japanese woman who loves to draw and dance. Check my robo artwork, please!
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Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:13 pm |
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I enjoyed reading each different opinion.
Above my opinion comes from a woman perception, so I'd appreciate if you guys understand me.
BTW, according to Marvel Comic Vol17, Lewis was married before, and her ex-husband showed up in the issue.
Here are the copies.
His name is Earl, seems he was a loser as her husband... :roll:
No wonder Lewis dumped him...Yes, Robo is much, much more attractive than him!
I guess she has no her own children. Maybe she chose to be single...
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Stan The Man Bah Concepts Division
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 7021
Comment: I'm the guy in Old Archive.
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Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:33 pm |
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KidGoesWild : | Lewis was the same, she was just there, she didnt blab about ex husband, her previous jobs or moving out of some city etc as some character would in other movies, she was just there, and she was just herself and that was enough, and I feel the same thing translated into sequels
In the second one she obviously cares about Murph when he gets thrashed to pieces, and shes loyally still on duty even during the police strike. In the deleted shower scenes shes shown as feeling pity for Robo
In the third, well, shes just being herself, concerned about Murph and standing for whats right |
True, she was 'just there', and that was it. And it's fine, but I always thought she could have been cranked up a single notch from 'just there' in R2. In a lot of cases in R2 (mainly action scenes) they act independent of each other, and don't really 'team up' and have unified action like the original (and to an extent, R3). Basically, I just feel that they didn't emphasize a companionship and partnership in R2 but thought more of Lewis as an occasional sidekick, just didn't feel or seem quite the same. It seemed like a step-down, when I would think after making through the events in R1, the logical thing would have been to have the relationship possibly stepped-up a bit.
I have thought about this a lot, and might contend I'm looking a bit too much into it, judging it a bit too harshly. Other elements come into play too, the active police strike reducing Lewis' availability and forcing Robo to go it alone is a reasonable rationale, and such. But still, I just think Lewis seemed a bit underplayed in the sequels, in R2 by unfortunate design, in R3 by necessity. It wasn't ever that much to me, it was a rather subtle difference. Nevertheless, a little extra inclusion of Lewis' character in R2 would have helped, both for the character and the film as a whole. Case-in-point, one of your mentions of Lewis being a strong point in the film doesn't actually even happen in the film itself, it's a deleted scene. Should they have had that particular scene in the film? Perhaps, perhaps not - But just a little extra Lewis would not have been a bad thing. Just the addition of that brother/trucker piece would have done wonders and not hurt the rest of the film at all.
That said, I had forgot about the Marvel comics, and how they handled Lewis and Murphy. In my defense I haven't read them all, and the ones I did read I haven't read in some time. But from what I gather that comic series handled the Lewis/Murphy relationship well.
Now I will agree with KGW that the way the films are set-up and how they operate, we don't need a lot of exposition or background on characters, too much would indeed slow the film down and be a potential mess. Still, I think R2 could have done better in that regard, again, not much at all, just a bit. R3 did ok with Lewis, it probably could have done more originally but with her character being killed off rather than just leaving, it would have been a waste - No point going much into a character that you're gonna lose permanently nearly half-way into the film.
Madigan was both a partner and independent sidekick of sorts, the Series did a decent balance of having her along with Robo at times and also having her and Robo operate on their own with limited or no interaction. I just don't think Lewis had that balance, didn't have that chance and therefore can't be compared. I still prefer Lewis, as she is the quintessential partner to Robo/Murphy, and much as I like Madigan, all she was ultimately was the Lewis that could have been, a showing of how the Lewis character should/could have been done in many ways. _________________ I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!
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