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Saasouza
L-L1
 
Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Post Count: 430
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  Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:45 pm |
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| vegasrobo : | | I'm an american fella and I find the Elite squad movies about as cliche' as it gets..They may be fine films in the critical sense but they really don't break any new ground for action/drama films,But I've stated this before and gave examples before but also consider this Irvin Kershner directed arguably the finest film in the Star Wars franchise,And went on to Robocop 2 the Director doe's not completely make or break a film but they do heavily influence the end product,It's the friggin' revamping everything I don't see how 2014 supporters don't get that it's turned people off and spurned a hatred for this film yes "before anything has really officially been released" and therin lies the crux of the whole deal Robo was'nt as dead as some of you like to think people know Robo,Yes through a slew of bad films and choices they may have chosen too forget about him but much like people know Arnold "is" the terminator people know Robo is Robo and the general reaction has been negative due mainly almost solely on that dumb ass lookin' suit..And The new take on Robocop did'nt need that,To me it show's a lack of thoughtful care for the character.. |
You're entitled to your opinion but you don't speak for the majority of americans that watched ES. You're an exception. These are facts whetever you like it or not, it's all over the web in every website you can think of.
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CrimeDoesNotPay
Sgt-L1
Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Post Count: 186
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:01 pm |
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| Raymond : | I think good movies are fairly universal. You don't have to be a brazilian to enjoy Elite Squad or an american to enjoy classic Robocop. But ofc there can be some voting bias at times. But that goes both ways. A classic like Robocop taking place in a famous american city and big guns and big robots etc also has certain bias.
At the end of the day if Elite Squad only was a rated good due to a brazilian voting conspiracy it wouldn't be hard to prove. Yet if we look at what top critics said
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/elite_squad_the_enemy_within/reviews/?type=top_critics from New York, Chicago, Miami, LA etc they all agree it's a good movie
And isn't that a good thing? That the new Robocop 2014 director isn't a random hack but actually a talented director? I mean in my book it's a plus at least.
It takes a lot of talent and intelligence to be able to reboot a franchise. There are fails like Total Recall and Conan but there are also successes like Nolan's Batman or the new Man of Steel. But the very worst are those that just go out and copy a classic with modern actors and a modern director. Think the remake of Psycho. That doesn't work. You can't just go out there and copy everything that made the original a success and think that will translate perfectly. Padilha has said many times that they are not at all trying for some scene for scene remake with modern CGI. They will do their own thing. Based on Elite Squad 1&2 I think they can bring the violence, intensity and action Robocop 2014 needs.
Dredd from 2012 deserved more success but was more about a marketing failure than a failure from the director/actors/producers. Seems like they lacked a strong studio that could promote the movie and if you ask me I think the trailer gave a bit false impression to. They also lacked big names that could act as box office draws. That might be a problem Robocop 2014 partly shares because Kinnaman is yet not much bigger than Karl Urban but at least they got a better supporting cast and Sony/MGM is miles ahead in resources and marketing than Dredd's studio(s).
A February 2014 release could also work in it's favor. It's honestly not much competition then. Not gonna be any of those big summer blockbusters that often stick around from a summer release to take away spotlight from August/early September releases. |
It's no coincidence that the new Batman, the new Dredd and the new Superman ALL kept 90% of what the original suits (either in the first movies or comics) looked like......This is not the case with Robocop and i think that will be its downfall.
As for Kinnaman he is nowhere near to what Karl Urban is.
Urban has played in several blockbusters including The Lord Of The Rings Trilogy, The Chronicles Of Riddick, Ghost Ship, The Bourne Supremacy, Pathfinder, Dredd, the new Star Trek movies and also plays in the upcoming Riddick.
On the other hand Kinnaman has played where ? The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo? Other than that i see nothing good in his Bio....Someone correct me if i am wrong.
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vegasrobo
RoboGod and Shit
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Post Count: 2401
Comment: Vegas Baby!!!
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:09 pm |
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Kinnaman has been fine in what ever he duz,I don't even really have a problem with that choice..
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RoboPimp
PIMPY SUPREME
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Post Count: 3124
Comment: "You dead wrong if ya think that pimpin' gon' die" - Snoop Dogg, P.I.M.P. (Remix)
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:34 am |
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| Saasouza : | | vegasrobo : | | I'm an american fella and I find the Elite squad movies about as cliche' as it gets..They may be fine films in the critical sense but they really don't break any new ground for action/drama films,But I've stated this before and gave examples before but also consider this Irvin Kershner directed arguably the finest film in the Star Wars franchise,And went on to Robocop 2 the Director doe's not completely make or break a film but they do heavily influence the end product,It's the friggin' revamping everything I don't see how 2014 supporters don't get that it's turned people off and spurned a hatred for this film yes "before anything has really officially been released" and therin lies the crux of the whole deal Robo was'nt as dead as some of you like to think people know Robo,Yes through a slew of bad films and choices they may have chosen too forget about him but much like people know Arnold "is" the terminator people know Robo is Robo and the general reaction has been negative due mainly almost solely on that dumb ass lookin' suit..And The new take on Robocop did'nt need that,To me it show's a lack of thoughtful care for the character.. |
You're entitled to your opinion but you don't speak for the majority of americans that watched ES. You're an exception. These are facts whetever you like it or not, it's all over the web in every website you can think of. |
Opinions should never be treated as fact. Just because IMDB users rated "The Godfather" or "Fight Club" the best movie of all time doesn't make it the best movie of all time, just a movie that had a lot of widespead exposure and was well liked by a large community of active fans. So, any discussion of Elite Squad's validity is just as invalid. I know personally I had never even heard the briefest mention of Padhila or the Elite Squad movies until he was chosen for the Robocop remake, so I don't know where these "facts that are all over the web in every website you can think of" are...
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Saasouza
L-L1
Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Post Count: 430
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:24 am |
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First of all you need to put things in the right context. ES is an independent, portuguese-language movie made for a brazilian audience. It was never meant to be into the mainstream movie market. When i say its all over the internet of course im talking about the good ratings not about the popularity.
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vegasrobo
RoboGod and Shit
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Post Count: 2401
Comment: Vegas Baby!!!
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:38 am |
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| Saasouza : | | First of all you need to put things in the right context. ES is an independent, portuguese-language movie made for a brazilian audience. It was never meant to be into the mainstream movie market. |
Okay and?...It's a run of the mill flick in the grand scheme of things I doubt people will be debating the pro and con's of Elite Squad 25 years from now..So you guy's are proud of it great!...Cut out the crap of this is why Robo 2014 is gonna be great,There's more to this than just Jose..Dude the shooting script is F'n weak,The suit sucks,I don't care how you try to explain how current tech and blah blah blah it is,It doesn't look like Robocop look that up on Imdb and what ever site of your choosing..So Jose has a crap script,a lousy lookin" Robo and the #1 thing that hurt Robo to begin with a rating squarely aimed at PG-13...Hello Robo 3..Did you know that in a film the number of visible muzzle flash's and the caliber of said weapon can effect the rating of a film?..I.E.The Dark Knight Rises check out how many weapons in the climax utilize nothing more than sound effects..The .50's on the technical that the bat encounters in the final big chase are most interesting..I'm using this rating point to draw attention to "The shocking seen in which Murphy's wife discovers whats left of him" which I'm sure is a scene that will resound with a thud..This film just doesn't feel right..I don't think the lack of info Is a marketing approach in the very word's that you guy's have used Robo's just not that popular anymore so in that strain of thinking keeping everything top secret and underwraps doesn't make any sense..Look in the end if Jose can turn this mess and his lack of understanding for the character into a great genre defining film then yeah he's a Film making Badass...I look forward to seeing the end result of all of this and quite frankly to see who stays around the R.A. post release and which "Robo" fans do not..As a board we're in for one hell of a year..
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Stan The Man
Bah Concepts Division
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 7020
Comment: I'm the guy in Old Archive.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:29 am |
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| Saasouza : | | You're entitled to your opinion but you don't speak for the majority of americans that watched ES. You're an exception. |
No shit? Last I checked his post he didn't really speak for anyone other than himself. Not other Americans, not me, certainly not you, so I don't see why such a remark even has to be made. We know when he made his opinion he was speaking for himself and not others, cut the crap.
Anyway, as vegas said, whether or not Elite Squad was great doesn't really tell us dick about this new film, let alone that it will be so fuckin' good. I would like there to be something good and meaningful out of this remake but I still can't understand how there can be so much passion and such a bitter and staunch defense for something that hasn't even come to light yet.
I'm with Igor - basically I think this whole discussion is more-or-less totally pointless at this stage. You all want to continue yakkin on this when almost all of it is irrelevant anyway, go right ahead.
All of this is just my opinion of course. I think it's obvious but I wanted to say that in case it wasn't clear. :roll:
_________________
I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!
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RoboHell
RoboPops!
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Post Count: 2874
Comment: Murphy had a wife and son....what happend to them?
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:22 am |
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I'm staying out of RubberCop 2014 from now on, were going in circles with two Brazilian guys that are very proud of Jose directing a remake of their favorite movie...well at least Saasouza's favorite movie, I think Raymond has seen RoboCop a few times but dose not care about it too much, which is apparent in his earlier posts.
So have fun boys...now off to convince Proto to take off the dress.
Oh yeah, Vegas and Sheep boy are right and the suit sucks!!! 
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beer
L-L2
Joined: 08 Mar 2012
Post Count: 554
Comment: RoboTrap is my friend Plus he can act intelligent and normal
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:34 am |
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1 more reason the movie is not good.
Paul Verhoeven is an atheist. Most of the time atheist people are more intelligent.
Padilha is religious.
We all remember parah salin don't we?
http://robocopriot.tumblr.com/
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Raymond
Sgt-L5
Joined: 16 Nov 2012
Post Count: 384
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:04 pm |
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lol just when you thought the level of discussion and cheap assaults on Padilha it goes into atheism/religion? Not touching that.
Anyhow what's impressive with Padilha is that his english vocabulary is very nice. Almost like he studied in UK somewhere. He's definitely a notch above most foreign directors. Seen many of these asian directors coming over that can express themselves in english but not much more. Padilha can probably get exactly what he wants out of the actors.
For the ever ongoing suit hate the only cure will be when they show off how good it will actually look in the movie. Comic Con San Diego is less than a month away now. Should show some photos/teasers of how it's intended after PP.
Robocop is sure to attend but the exact schedule is still maybe 1-2 weeks away. Hopefully they will run a panel with Padilha, Kinnaman, Oldman and maybe someone else. Not entirely sure about Kinnaman as he might have to head over to Europe for shooting Child 44 where he seems to play a villain.
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Raymond
Sgt-L5
Joined: 16 Nov 2012
Post Count: 384
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:18 pm |
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| CrimeDoesNotPay : |
It's no coincidence that the new Batman, the new Dredd and the new Superman ALL kept 90% of what the original suits (either in the first movies or comics) looked like......This is not the case with Robocop and i think that will be its downfall.
As for Kinnaman he is nowhere near to what Karl Urban is.
Urban has played in several blockbusters including The Lord Of The Rings Trilogy, The Chronicles Of Riddick, Ghost Ship, The Bourne Supremacy, Pathfinder, Dredd, the new Star Trek movies and also plays in the upcoming Riddick.
On the other hand Kinnaman has played where ? The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo? Other than that i see nothing good in his Bio....Someone correct me if i am wrong. |
Disagree, there was a lot of HEAT on both Batman and Man of Steel.
Batman went from rubber/latex to some extreme kevlar suit. It went from gothic with some campy comedy to realistic. Not to mention what they did to the batmobile. Man of Steel...well that's an even further step away. Removing Supermans sacred iconic red underwear? that's just the tip of the iceberg.
As for Kinnaman, check out the "Snabba Cash" trilogy. Easy Money in english. Still might be a bit edgy/violent/realistic for most Hollywood fans and you obviously need subtitles since it's a swedish production.
Kinnaman shows amazing range in the movie since he's "playing" a rich upper class guy that in reality is a poor guy driving cabs illegally in Stockholm. So his entire lifestyle is fake and eventually he starts to side with criminals to sustain it and everything goes to hell. He rightfully won the swedish equivalent of an Oscar for it.
He hasn't spent much time in the american movie business but got a lead role in a major tv-series very fast. The Killing. He plays a former meth addict turned homicide cop that is a very complex and conflicted character but he made it likeable and pulls it off with flying colors. His co-star Mirielle Enos got a role staring with Brad Pit in World War Z that has like a 200M budget. So I mean great acting can be recognized even if it's not in a cinematic release.
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Saasouza
L-L1
Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Post Count: 430
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:33 pm |
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| Stan The Man : |
No shit? Last I checked his post he didn't really speak for anyone other than himself. Not other Americans, not me, certainly not you, so I don't see why such a remark even has to be made. We know when he made his opinion he was speaking for himself and not others, cut the crap. |
Of course i speak for myself but if i have facts to support my arguments i'll shure make use of them. You can't simply jump into the latest thing you read and expect to know what's going on in the whole topic. You should roll back a few posts and see why i'm talking about americans in first place.
But yes, when i look at this subject through an american scope, i see most of you are maybe so immersed in your own movie culture (which is bigger than life) that you fail to realise that the wheel also spins in a broader, international sense. Academy awards won't help much in that sense, since it's mostly a celebration of the domestic industry (which is fine) but when every foreign movie ends up packed in a 'Best Foreign Language Film' category it fails to picture cinema as a whole.
Fortunately there are a number of important film festivals around the globe that won't make a language such an important issue and them the whole worldly production gets the same treatment and in that circuit ES made really good, winning some of the most important prizes.
Moreover if you are more than an average moviegoer and actually pay attention to the worldwide movie production you'll know ES is very well regarded no matter where you from.. even americans are no exception here.
| Stan The Man : | | Anyway, as vegas said, whether or not Elite Squad was great doesn't really tell us dick about this new film, let alone that it will be so fuckin' good. I would like there to be something good and meaningful out of this remake but I still can't understand how there can be so much passion and such a bitter and staunch defense for something that hasn't even come to light yet. |
Shure this is no guarantee RoboCop is going to succeed but Padilha's previous efforts is the only solid thing we got to make a more accurate judgement of what's coming and in that sense, maybe because i "lived" the buzz of his movies in my country i'm more prone to accept him as a good choice for RoboCop. But, like i said, even you're not brazilian if you had a better idea of what's going on outside the mainstream you might be able to see that too.
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CrimeDoesNotPay
Sgt-L1
Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Post Count: 186
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:33 pm |
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| Raymond : | | CrimeDoesNotPay : |
It's no coincidence that the new Batman, the new Dredd and the new Superman ALL kept 90% of what the original suits (either in the first movies or comics) looked like......This is not the case with Robocop and i think that will be its downfall.
As for Kinnaman he is nowhere near to what Karl Urban is.
Urban has played in several blockbusters including The Lord Of The Rings Trilogy, The Chronicles Of Riddick, Ghost Ship, The Bourne Supremacy, Pathfinder, Dredd, the new Star Trek movies and also plays in the upcoming Riddick.
On the other hand Kinnaman has played where ? The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo? Other than that i see nothing good in his Bio....Someone correct me if i am wrong. |
Disagree, there was a lot of HEAT on both Batman and Man of Steel.
Batman went from rubber/latex to some extreme kevlar suit. It went from gothic with some campy comedy to realistic. Not to mention what they did to the batmobile. Man of Steel...well that's an even further step away. Removing Supermans sacred iconic red underwear? that's just the tip of the iceberg.
As for Kinnaman, check out the "Snabba Cash" trilogy. Easy Money in english. Still might be a bit edgy/violent/realistic for most Hollywood fans and you obviously need subtitles since it's a swedish production.
Kinnaman shows amazing range in the movie since he's "playing" a rich upper class guy that in reality is a poor guy driving cabs illegally in Stockholm. So his entire lifestyle is fake and eventually he starts to side with criminals to sustain it and everything goes to hell. He rightfully won the swedish equivalent of an Oscar for it.
He hasn't spent much time in the american movie business but got a lead role in a major tv-series very fast. The Killing. He plays a former meth addict turned homicide cop that is a very complex and conflicted character but he made it likeable and pulls it off with flying colors. His co-star Mirielle Enos got a role staring with Brad Pit in World War Z that has like a 200M budget. So I mean great acting can be recognized even if it's not in a cinematic release. |
They could had used ICE CREAM for all i care, in the end if you put both Batman suits next to each other the differences are not staggering. Sure the new suit is taking advantage of all the new technologies available but the overall design IS THE SAME.
Same as Superman. They didn't change the DESIGN of the suit. That they lost the red part and left it blue again means nothing. I'd rather see the old Robocop in BLACK than what they are dishing out now. 30 years after the original if they were "smart" enough to take the Original design and TWEAK it a bit (like in Batman, Dredd and Superman) they'd almost Immediately have a block buster in their hands.
You seem like an intelligent person so i am pretty certain you are getting what i am saying.
As for Kinnaman i am not saying he is not a good actor but in your previous message you said he is not much LARGER than Karl Urban. However Urban has a far richer background and has played in several globally accepted movies (blockbusters) so i don't see how Kinnaman comes even close to him. Again plain reasoning.
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Mindchamber
DC-L4
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Post Count: 2746
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:44 pm |
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| beer : | 1 more reason the movie is not good.
Paul Verhoeven is an atheist. Most of the time atheist people are more intelligent.
Padilha is religious.
We all remember parah salin don't we?
http://robocopriot.tumblr.com/ |
not the smartest thing youve said in some time.
having seene both ES movies, I believe Padilha will do fine.
The problem is the script. and that was sadly written by a bunch ofwriters with not so amazing track records, who happen to be americans,
and Im sure the suit and designs are executive choices.
At the very least Padiha will be the reason a very sad, generic PG-13 remake will probably have any grit whatsoever.
Still I would've preferred, Neill Blomkamp for this, his scify track record is rock solid and his ability to instill emotion and gravitas in a movie is unparalleled, in my opinion. and oh hes not american.
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RoboCop 2014 Discussion
