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RoboCop 2014 - REVIEW
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Comment: Murphy had a wife and son....what happend to them?

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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:06 pm Reply with quote

RoboTrap :
I've said it before: the original is a smart movie that pretends to be dumb, the remake is a dumb movie convinced that it's smart.

The pretense of deeper meaning and emotional value that runs through the movie is infuriating because everything else in the film, from the narrative to the acting to the editing, is subservient to the idea that this is a "deep" film. And that simply isn't true. At best superficial fluff and at worst mind-numbingly overdone, the core conceit just doesn't work, whether through incompetence or misguidance. They could have suppressed those broken ideas and focused on action and humor, but instead of distracting the audience from the film's issues, they decided to shine a spotlight on them, in the hopes that hammering you over the head with them will blind you to the shortcomings.

It's a facade of intelligence and little more, the equivalent of a child waving his arms at you and screaming that he's got something important to say in an adult discussion, only to blankly recite Wikipedia articles should you dare pay attention.

I've seen episodes of Cheers that said deeper things.


Like, that was all deep and stuff man.

Great post.
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:44 pm Reply with quote

Trap said it (again), I remember reading that before and thinking nail on the fuckin' head.

And to think, I'm a guy that likes me some exposition and bullshit. But this movie has it and it's painful - again, Trap pretty much said it so I'll avoid being redundant there.

All I'll add is that that the original RoboCop was a great example of less-is-more, as Chanood pointed out. RoboCop 2014 is an example of more-is-too-much-and-not-enough at the same damn time. Bah.
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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:49 pm Reply with quote

I still love it. I love it more with each viewing and I ain't done yet.



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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:49 pm Reply with quote

I found funny how interesting the original draft was, when I said that the script was shit. But itīs almost a masterpiece if you compare to the final film:

- It has monkeys. Ok, thatīs a silly thing, but I find interesting that before going that way for Murphy they did some tests.

- Murphy gets shot and he doesnīt get hurt on a explosion.

- It has ACTION. Something the film doesnīt have.

- It was mature/gorier. Murphy kills a woman where Omnicorp are testing him and the womanīs head explode, etc.

- Vallon was a character, not a cameo from an unknown actor.

- It has SATIRE. It could be handled better, but they tried.

It has their faults, but seems more solid than the final product, which is a ton of interesting ideas without an objetive on a film. Also, I found interesting that some things are handled better. For example, the criminal database upload. In the script, they tried to upload it to Murphyīs brain (he only got 9%) NOT 5 minutes before they release him into the press.

Also itīs weird that, while it has gruesome parts, then has other parts that looked "PG", as Murphy getting shot is never shown, except for gun lights on windows.




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Comment: RoboCop: The Future's Silver Lining

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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:58 pm Reply with quote

As much shit as we (rightfully) gave that old draft, it had more things going on than the final product. Of course, it's give and take... they give us a scene that doesn't call the original design shit, but they take away an action sequence or a bit of characterization, so on and so forth into infinity.

Then again, that isn't give and take at all! That's just selective taking!
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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:50 pm Reply with quote

Having re-watched Total Recall(2012) recently it is astonishing how more money on the screen that movie has compared to RoboCop2014, even though they apparently shared a similar budget. I still think the acting and story in TR is extremely shallow and empty but the design and look of the movie is miles ahead of the low budget feel Robo2014 has.

Someone here on the forum suggested that half the budget for Robo2014 probably went to the actors and that is probably true.




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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:13 am Reply with quote

Maybe I am a little bit late, but I want to write a detailed summary about
my opinions and thoughts from the RoboCop 2014.

If I want to describe this movie with one sentence then imagine an olympic runner who
is going to win the game but in the finish he stops and turns back.

The basic concept, the story and the new characters were OK, but the realization was SHIT,
definitely a BIG FUCKING SHIT.

But let's talk about the positive things first.

What I liked in the movie best is RoboCop himself. I think the main success of this movie
that it created a much different RoboCop more emotional than the original was and with a
lot of new capabilities. While I still don't like the black suit and the human hand, the design
of the new RoboCop was OK. Based on the concept arts we saw, the designers checked every
viewponts about how the new RoboCop should look like. It was also great that this movie
show a technically very detailed RoboCop, the scene where Murphy is disassembled is the
best scene of the film, the CGI effects were OK and both Kinnaman's and Oldman's acting
was perfect. Speaking about Kinnaman I think he was quite good in the role of the new RoboCop.



I think these are the only positive things that I can say about the movie.

The biggest problem with this movie is that it was full with new ideas but it didn't used it wisely
and what we get is a very weak movie, despite of the PG-13 rating and $130 million budget.

I really hate the Total Recall 2012 remake, but it had the same budget and contained much more
CGI effects which were really spectacular. I don't understand why was the RoboCop remake
so expensive?

Let's analyze the movie from scene to scene:

The Iran scene. Probably this is the movie's most expensive and also the most boring scene.
Suicide bombers blew themselves up, there is big fire and smoke and and that's it. Padilha probably
wanted to make this scene terrifying and shocking but because of the PG-13 censorship, he failed.
This scene should show us the "automation of violence", but there was no violence. Nay! The robots
handled the situation perfectly:

- they react quickly
- the terrorists were eliminated
- no innocent was killed

The little terrorist scumbag also deserved to be shoot by the ED-209, he had only a knife, but if he find a
loaded weapon or a hand grenade he would use it.

The car bomb scene. If you want to make a dramatic scene, then this is the best example how you shouldn't do it.
In the original movie the scene when Murphy was transported to the operating room, now that scene contained more drama than every episode of ER. I think the car bomb scene is the worst scene I ever saw and it is full with mistakes:

- Murphy hears the car's alarm siren, late in the evening Murphy goes out to check it, but without his gun?
- why was the alarm system triggered?
- the car bomb should detonated when Murphy gets out of the car and not when he opens the door again.
- after Murphy blows up we see him on the ground but his injuries are not so critical and only his clothes get
fuliginous, which is hard to believe after such a big explosion.

Murphy's injuries doesn't give a clear reason for the full body prosthesis, Dr. Norton could save his human body by replacing with cybernetic inplants only the damaged parts. Murphy should have suffer bigger damages after the explosion (like Jake Gyllenhaal in Source Code).

The VR test and field test scenes. Also expensive but boring scenes.

The OmniCorp battle scene. The only real action scene of the movie, good start but bad flop. After Murphy falls off with the ED, the story gets boring again. It was also ridiculous that Jack Lewis saves RoboCop's life three times within 1 minute:

1. Jack hits the ED with the SWAT mobile.
2. Jack protects RoboCop with his own body
3. Jack shoots Mattox

Jack is a great hero, he deserves a Spin-Off movie (Jack Lewis: RoboCop's former partner)

The OmniCorp scene was also full with mistakes:

- the building was well protected by ED-209 units, when Murphy arrived, there were 5 EDs ready to shoot RoboCop, but there was no EM-208 units, which is hard to believe. OmniCorp is the centre of robotics but, there wasn't any EM to protect the building.
- there were no EM units, but there were human guards. I can tell you something about the OmniCorp guards, they are cowards, none of them fired a single bullet to RoboCop. In the original movie Lt. Hedgecock and his SWAT team almost killed Murphy because they had a clear order to finish him.

What I'm really sorry is Rick Mattox, he could have been RoboCop's biggest enemy in the movie. A military tactician who knows RoboCop's weak points, I thougth there will be a hand to hand combat scene between Murphy and Mattox, but no. Mattox was simpley shoot in the back. Jackie Earle Haley is a great actor he really deserved more in this film.

It was also a great faliure that the exo-skeleton was a useless shit in the movie. Elysium and Edge of Tomorrow used the technology of the exo-skeleton much better and there are great action scenes, but in RoboCop the exo-skeleton was unnecessary. It doesn't protected Mattox and it doesn't gave extra speed and strength.




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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:02 am Reply with quote

Well, I just had a chance last night to see this film again, and I was curious to see if my overall opinion would change. I know alot of fans have had mixed reactions and emotions about it, and I myself felt there were some things lacking in this remake/reboot initially. But I've also come to realize that I was like everyone else when this movie came out; I was simply reacting to the experience of seeing a beloved property re-imagined, and it's only after the excitement and hype has died down, when you're in your home and you can pause and rewind, take your time and absorb the film and all its aspects, to really think about the themes and story elements, and only then can one properly process the whole thing, have it truly sink-in so you can have a more informed and well-thought-out response. I guess I also wanted to make sure the glowing words from my first viewing weren't just a result of me being caught up in the hype...

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and honestly say I love this film even more than I initially did, and I'll try to give some reasonable points as to why:

First of all, to begin with a scene showing the use of robotic drones and mechs in a dangerous middle-eastern country is a little more than unsettling, how our response to escalating terror and danger in battle could end up being a situation where these mechanized, unmanned robots will patrol the streets and walk the battlefields of the world, and then the question arises...where does the safety and security end and the control and opprssion begin? It's a rather scary notion, and I thought it was a good one to present as a lead-in to the notion of human-controlled cybernetics...

I also really loved how they delved much more deeply into the process of creating a cyborg, into what that kind of endeavor might look like, what the emotional and psychological implications might be for someone like Alex Murphy and his family, and how someone might come to terms with being transformed into something like that. It was just a great exploration, and it was nice to see a more detailed and intricate build-up to his debut with the public...

Another thing I liked was the pace of action. Now I know I initially said this film could have used more action scenes...it was one of the few gripes I had in the beginning, but upon seeing it a second time, I feel like the few scenes we see served their respective roles well; I don't necessarily want to see an endless series of empty, meaningless action shots jammed into a film just for the sake of trying to perpetuate the look and feel of a blockbuster. I especially loved the "blackout/shootout" scene, which, incidentally, I got a distinct Aliens/Predator vibe from it all, with the stark imagery of Murphy coming at the shooters out of the darkness, only briefly revealed by the flash of muzzle-fire, along with the heat signatures of everyone he mows down. It was just cool, which brings me to what I've come to think about Vallon as a non-villain...

The character of Vallon I feel was simply a plot device and nothing more; he was never meant to be a "main villain", as he was not necessarily someone pulling all the strings. He was just part of the web of corruption that Murphy uncovers with his new detecting abilities. And that leads me to my next point, something that never occurred to me until my wife made a prediction; she hadn't seen it before, by the way...

Anyway, she saw the part where Lewis is on camera making a comment about how he wouldn't rest until those that tried to kill Murphy were found and brought to justice, and she says, "It's Lewis, isn't it? He's the rat." And I did indeed watch his actions the rest of the film, and it almost seems as if they wanted you to wonder if he was somehow involved, which then turned it into somewhat of a "whodunit" type of conspiracy, and I hadn't considered that before, and that in turn illustrated the notion that by creating RoboCop, they never imagined he would do his job a little too good...

Incidentally, there's one scene I want to point out specifically, only because I had such a light-bulb moment, and if indeed Padilha meant it as a homage to the original, it was a brilliant little nod that also made a statement about the franchise as a whole:

During the scene in question, we see the original armor design flash up on the monitor while Sellars and his marketing guy discuss how best to upgrade Robo's look, and the marketing guy says that the original design put the fear of God into some inmates, which I thought was a nice little way to compliment what came before, and then suddenly the armor transforms into the new silver-suit look mostly, and he says the transforming feature scored through the roof with kid study groups, to which Sellars says that's embarrassing. I just thought it was cool how they showed the transition from the old design into the new with that scene, and it also made a very subtle statement about how you couldn't always cater to the kids and water-down something that was meant to be taken seriously and be presented with some sense of dignity...

I have to say overall, I enjoyed every thing about this movie, from the effects, the story, the cinematography, the actors...everything was top-notch. Now does this mean it was perfect without any flaws? Of course not, and I still have a few questions that maybe you guys can help me answer:

When Murphy confronts the chief of the department, he mentions how Vallon was protected by someone on-high, and maybe I missed something, but...why would the department be protecting him? I could see why the corrupt cops would have a motive if they're getting cuts of drug and/or weapon sales for turning a blind eye and/or supplying him with confiscated evidence, but not the chief. I thought maybe she was paid-off by OCP, but then in Sellar's conversation with Mattox, he implies he's not associated with her...

Another problem I had was something my wife pointed out, how Dr. Norton's team was tracking Murphy's activities, and they note how he's "solving his own murder". It's a phrase not used just once but twice even, by two different characters. But as others have pointed out, Murphy wasn't killed by the car bomb. So shouldn't it have been considered attempted murder? But my wife said in the scene where Clara is signing the release forms, Dr. Norton and his team tell her Murphy's going to assuredly die if they don't do their procedure. So if they're 99.9% sure someone's gonna die from their injuries from a grievous attack, does that constitute murder?

Oh, and another thing I loved was how Murphy fights his way through all of those ED-209s to make it to his family and confront Sellars, who turns out to really be the main antagonist of the whole film, which I thought was pretty fitting considering he comes across as a rather smug, untouchable CEO with vast power and financial resources...

I also loved Gary Oldman's agonized Dr. Norton. He wants to do the right thing, and he's pushed-around by OCP throughout most of the film, but he always cares about Murphy as a person in the end, and it was just a great role...

Also, I enjoyed the physicality and presence Joel Kinnaman brought to the character of RoboCop...he had the stature, the commanding voice, and the vulnerability it took to portray a man that had everything ripped away from him, including his body, his family, and his life. The original film only hints at this disposition, and even then you never get the impression that Weller's Robocop truly regains his humanity, not at least until the very end, when he calls himself "Murphy" and smiles. That was a great, classic way to punctuate the original, but in this new film, I loved the intricate journey you see the new Murphy go through, how he has to wake-up fully aware of the horror that is his new existence, and also how he has to come to terms with what he now is and what that means for his family and his life in general. He slowly accepts what he's become, and it's just fascinating to watch that process take place, and the creepy music they play in the scenes that highlights his initial shock just drives it all home...

And...I would just get chills when they'd play that original title score. It was so great to hear that in a new movie again after all these years.

One more thing I want to point out; Optimus, you pondered why there were no EM-208s guarding the OCP building. I thought about that too, and that might have made for a more dramatic ending, but they had already seen Robo in action against them, and he went through them pretty-much like they were nothing. Now had they come out with some upgraded, more heavily armed and dangerous EM-208s, like an EM-210 or something, then that might have made things interesting. But then that's the role the ED-209s played I guess, and for him to take so many of them on at once like that was awesome and fun to watch in my book. I will agree with you, however, about Mattox and his exo-suit; a more physical confrontation and resulting struggle would have been great, especially if Murphy would have used his human hand to deliver the killing blow, as it were, whatever that might mean, whether it was pulling a trigger or a lever that drops or smashes him or something, and the irony and symbolism would have been that it was Murphy's humanity and strength of character that defeated Mattox and not his cybernetics, that Mattox so underestimated and dismissed in favor of robotics...

There was one glaring problem I thought was a mistake they made, and that was how Murphy's point of view looked in the first person perspective shots in the film...I noticed a few times he had the "widescreen/letterbox" view highlighted in red, which would imply to me that his visor was down with the red LED effect, but his visor was retracted in a few shots, and he still had that particular field of vision. If that was truly the case, and that's what his view looked like all the time, then what was the visor for in the first place? I know the original RoboCop was the same way, that his tactical read-outs were actually the optical feed inside Murphy's new artificial eyeballs, but his visor/helmet seemed to be much more sturdy and protective than the new one is, and indeed in the heavy scraps he gets into in the film, the visor seems to shatter like plastic or something under really heavy fire. So is it just for looks? It doesn't seem to provide the tactical read-out stuff, and it's not the most protective material, although I do seem to remember lighter-caliber bullets being reflected off of it in the drug-factory-raid scene. Bottom line, it just bothered me and seemed like someone's lazy mistake, just like all of the unfinished promotional shots of the 1.0 suit with the stunt-visor; it didn't seem to make sense for Murphy to have that letterbox visor view in his line of vision, even when the visor that would seemingly create that effect was retracted. I guess it's a minor nit-pick, but still...

The very last comment I want to make is that I enjoyed the various layers this film has; I enjoyed the relevant themes that are explored, the themes of overcompensating for escalating violence in the world with more violent machines, or at least machines that are capable of more violence, how technology sometimes seems to be invading our very physicality and consciousness, how surveillance is absolutely everywhere and there's very little done in this world with no technological trace, and the duality of how technology can be both our salvation and the means to our collective end. And the bottom line? It's all about money...RoboCop is developed and pushed in the name of the almighty dollar...and when it doesn't go as planned, lie your way out and make it all look legal and cover up the truth. Classic OCP stuff...

I may get flak for it, and I'd be more than happy to have my points and opinions challenged and debated, but...I truly love this film. It will never, EVER replace what the original is to me, but it really is a nice continuation of the concept and a very entertaining exploration of the themes the original proposed in a modern, realistic, and dramatic way.




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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:00 pm Reply with quote

Well, at least you actually stuck around and elaborated your views, more than I can say for some R2014-lovers. That said..

Quote:
The character of Vallon I feel was simply a plot device and nothing more; he was never meant to be a "main villain", as he was not necessarily someone pulling all the strings. He was just part of the web of corruption that Murphy uncovers with his new detecting abilities.


The problem is that he could have and should have been a 'main villain' - He is still the one directly responsible for eliminating Murphy, the original and critical action that ultimately results in RoboCop. That shouldn't be something to just scoff at, a character that does something THAT significant for the film shouldn't be so minor, plain and simple.

At the base Boddicker was the same but they still did a lot more with him, showed he was a major character in terms of the film's story, showed he was his own man, a true adversary and a force in the Detroit crime world and was capable of quite a lot. With Vallon, there's no real showing of his power or influence. His whole character was a contrivance of convenience, nothing more, and for someone who's actions result in RoboCop, that's just not acceptable. He honestly could have been done away with and the film wouldn't have been affected in any significant way. Again, that ain't acceptable to me. It's not even like a lot was needed, just a bit more could have been done with his character and worked wonders.

Quote:
In the scene, we see the original armor design flash up on the monitor while Sellars and his marketing guy discuss how best to upgrade Robo's look, and the marketing guy says that the original design put the fear of God into some inmates, which I thought was a nice little way to compliment what came before, and then suddenly the armor transforms into the new silver-suit look mostly, and he says the transforming feature scored through the roof with kid study groups, to which Sellars says that's embarrassing. I just thought it was cool how they showed the transition from the old design into the new with that scene, and it also made a very subtle statement about how you couldn't always cater to the kids and water-down something that was meant to be taken seriously and be presented with some sense of dignity.


That would be fine if they didn't still do that anyway with the black suit - That was a watering down and loss of dignity for the sole purpose of someone's half-brained idea of being 'tactical'. Which frankly is just as ridiculous.

Quote:
Another problem I had was something my wife pointed out, how Dr. Norton's team was tracking Murphy's activities, and they note how he's "solving his own murder". It's a phrase not used just once but twice even, by two different characters. But as others have pointed out, Murphy wasn't killed by the car bomb. So shouldn't it have been considered attempted murder? But my wife said in the scene where Clara is signing the release forms, Dr. Norton and his team tell her Murphy's going to assuredly die if they don't do their procedure. So if they're 99.9% sure someone's gonna die from their injuries from a grievous attack, does that constitute murder?


As far as I'm aware, putting it generally and simply, No. In terms of the law I'm pretty sure they still actually have to be declared legally deceased for it to be murder, 'sure' doesn't quite cut it there.

Anyway, as for the lines made in the film, this was just more lazy piss-poor writing - They could have just said 'figuring out what happened to him', or 'solving his own attack/crime', or something. Bah, this is why I liked how the original did it more - He actually was dead there and that eliminates all this kinda horseshit.

Quote:
I enjoyed the physicality and presence Joel Kinnaman brought to the role. He had the stature, the commanding voice, and the vulnerability it took to portray a man that had everything ripped away from him, including his body, his family, and his life. The original film only hints at it, and even then you never get the impression that Weller's Robocop truly regains his humanity, not at least until the very end, when he calls himself "Murphy" and smiles.


First off, WHAT? Are you goddamned serious? You do realize that your statement implies Weller didn't bring that same level of presence to the role, and if that's the case, you need to wash the remake ring from your mouth and watch that first film again. Weller had everything you purport Kinnaman to have and then some. I don't know what the hell you mean talking about 'only hints'. As to regaining his humanity - I guess you consider the trip to his house, nearly killing Boddicker outright in the factory, his deliberate voice chance and removal of the helmet, and attempting to again outright kill Boddicker in the water inadequate 'impressions' of his regaining humanity prior to the end.

Now, as for Kinnaman, he was fair. He may have been fine physically speaking but I never liked his demeanor, he always came off as cocky compared to Weller who was a bit more neutral. Just couldn't stand that. Of course he was that way as Murphy too, so I guess I just didn't like that part of Kinnaman's performance period.

Quote:
The very last comment I want to make is that I enjoyed the various layers this film has; I enjoyed the revelant themes that are explored, the themes of overcompensating for escalating violence in the world with more violent machines, or at least machines that are capable of more violence, how technology sometimes seems to be invading our very physicality and consciousness, how surveillance is absolutely everywhere and there's very little done in this world with no technological trace, and how technology can be both our salvation and the means to our collective end. And the bottom line? It's all about money...RoboCop is developed and pushed in the name of the almighty dollar. Classic OCP. And when it doesn't go as planned, lie your way out and make it all look legal and cover up the truth.


Funny, I didn't find that many layers in the film or that many themes actually explored. The rest of your ramble on technology being the new god and master and it being about the dollar aren't 'many' themes. It's only two.

All-told - I'm glad you enjoy the film as much as you do. I myself didn't get anything better out of my second viewing, mainly because of the reverse reason - The hype and excitement of seeing it the first time actually let me overlook some stuff, which became evident on my second viewing. Then again, I'm not prepared to deny I might have been looking for things to be wrong. Nevertheless, the film is still quite a mess to me, and nowhere in the league of the original. Maybe on a third viewing I might try to look more for the good, but I fear in doing so I'll be let down even more. The film has some good things, it's not truly bad. It's just not that that damn good, at least not me, anyway.
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:12 pm Reply with quote

Of course we're not in the business here to tell everyone that they MUST hate RoboCop2014. But I remain curious how anyone that says they LOVE the movie are able to ignore the many problems and plot holes it obviously have.

The fairytale ending is...cute. But it's an awfully lame way to quickly add that "they lived happily ever after." I don't have any real problem with it, it works, but it is just like the movie itself. Watered down and safe. Completely lacking any edge.




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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:47 pm Reply with quote

I think the biggest question is now how will they continue the story?

While the original RoboCop movie was a brilliant masterpiece, RoboCop 2 was only a
good sci-fi action movie, it doesn't give anything new about RoboCop, actually Cain
was more interesting than Robo.

The new sequel can also fall in the same trap if they just generate a new enemy for
RoboCop (probably a cyborg better, faster, stronger than Robo). And if we consider that the
remake had very mixed receptions, the sequel can flop badly.

I still believe, it would have been better if, instead of reimigining RoboCop in
one 2hr long film, they could do that better in a new RoboCop TV series.

Today's TV series are better than the movies (eg. Hannibal, Walking Dead, Continuum, Defiance,
Almost Human, etc...), these TV series are very complex, with great stories, characters and actors.
The CGI effects are also amazing.




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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:52 pm Reply with quote

I think the concept of "RoboCopS" if they go for that would be an interesting idea. It is something touched upon in the various incarnations but never fully realised.

If RoboCop is truly a product, if a new model comes, a whole bunch of RoboCops, what is the need for the outdated model? Would they simply just trash him?




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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:38 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
The character of Vallon I feel was simply a plot device and nothing more; he was never meant to be a "main villain", as he was not necessarily someone pulling all the strings. He was just part of the web of corruption that Murphy uncovers with his new detecting abilities.


Stan The Man :
At the base Boddicker was the same but they still did a lot more with him, showed he was a major character in terms of the film's story, showed he was his own man, a true adversary and a force in the Detroit crime world and was capable of quite a lot.


I was going to say the same. Boddicker works FOR DICK JONES, DICK JONES! (excuse me, just heard Smithīs voice on my mind). And yet, heīs a full developed character. Yes, a bad man, but if I was a sadist like him, I think Iīd enjoy his sick sense of humour. Thatīs great when you could feel something good for such a bad character.

Quote:
In the scene, we see the original armor design flash up on the monitor while Sellars and his marketing guy discuss how best to upgrade Robo's look, and the marketing guy says that the original design put the fear of God into some inmates, which I thought was a nice little way to compliment what came before, and then suddenly the armor transforms into the new silver-suit look mostly, and he says the transforming feature scored through the roof with kid study groups, to which Sellars says that's embarrassing. I just thought it was cool how they showed the transition from the old design into the new with that scene, and it also made a very subtle statement about how you couldn't always cater to the kids and water-down something that was meant to be taken seriously and be presented with some sense of dignity.


Iīd work for me if I didnīt saw that the draft made fun of the original design. I thought they change that after the reaction from fans.


I have a question: Do we know the difference between Robo 1.0 and the silver suit at the end? I remember on one of the extras from the DVD they do a quick video about the silver suit, but presented it as the "next generation" model. I wonder what theyīd think about that.

As for the end, watching Joelīs silly smile when seeing the family doesnīt work to me. So happy for such a tragic history. Also, canīt imagine a "Family Matters" situation but with a robotic daddy... nothanks

Stan The Man :
First off, WHAT? Are you goddamned serious? You do realize that your statement implies Weller didn't bring that same level of presence to the role, and if that's the case, you need to wash the remake ring from your mouth and watch that first film again. Weller had everything you purport Kinnaman to have and then some. I don't what the hell you mean talking about 'only hints'. As to regaining his humanity - I guess you consider the trip to his house, nearly killing Boddicker outright in the factory, his deliberate voice chance and removal of the helmet, and attempting to again outright kill Boddicker in the water inadequate 'impressions' of his regaining humanity prior to the end.

Now, as for Kinnaman, he was fair. He may have been fine physically speaking but I never liked his demeanor, he always came off as cocky compared to Weller who was a bit more neutral. Just couldn't stand that. Of course he was that way as Murphy too, so I guess I just didn't like that part of Kinnaman's performance period.


Canīt compare Weller to Kinnaman. Yes, Kinnaman is tall and athletic, but works like an asshole even from the begining. I canīt relate to an smartass who wants to fight with his -corrupt- partners from the first minute. Also, he overacts with his "facial expressions" on some scenes. Weller looked more like an everyday man, he cracks jokes and doesnīt look like he has to feel pissed all the time.

Also I like how the original didnīt have to do the obvious way (explaining Murphīs life like in the reboot) and how you could feel sorry for a dude we "know" for less that 30 minutes. As for Detective Alex Murphy, hell, Iīd try to kill him for being so arrogant tongue




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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:54 am Reply with quote

Stan The Man :

Quote:
I enjoyed the physicality and presence Joel Kinnaman brought to the role. He had the stature, the commanding voice, and the vulnerability it took to portray a man that had everything ripped away from him, including his body, his family, and his life. The original film only hints at it, and even then you never get the impression that Weller's Robocop truly regains his humanity, not at least until the very end, when he calls himself "Murphy" and smiles.


First off, WHAT? Are you goddamned serious? You do realize that your statement implies Weller didn't bring that same level of presence to the role, and if that's the case, you need to wash the remake ring from your mouth and watch that first film again. Weller had everything you purport Kinnaman to have and then some. I don't know what the hell you mean talking about 'only hints'. As to regaining his humanity - I guess you consider the trip to his house, nearly killing Boddicker outright in the factory, his deliberate voice chance and removal of the helmet, and attempting to again outright kill Boddicker in the water inadequate 'impressions' of his regaining humanity prior to the end.


Wow, I didn't mean to make you so angry, Stan. Maybe I should clarify my comments...

When I said the original film only hints at Murphy regaining his humanity, I meant that he slowly, piece by piece, in all of those instances you mentioned, reveal hints that deep down Alex Murphy is still in there somewhere, and then at the very end, he seems to have completely regained his full consciousness, as if he comes out of his cybernetic zombie-fog to reclaim his true identity. It's almost comparable to someone that survives a traumatic brain injury and their personality's changed; yes, they're the same person for the most part, but they may not remember their former life very much, if at all, although they pretty-much know who they are...

Incidentally, my comments were not meant to imply Peter Weller did not provide presence; he was RoboCop. No one ever even came close to what he brought to the role, and that includes Kinnaman. I truly wasn't trying to trivialize or minimalize what Weller did...it's a classic, irreplaceable, and impossible-to-replicate performance. His journey for the character just progressed in a much different manner than Kinnaman's Murphy, and I enjoyed seeing a different take. That's all I was saying, not that it was any better than the original. There was no disrespect meant...

As for Kinnaman's presence and physique, I guess I should have said he wore the suit really well. His stance and actions just seemed imposing, and he looked much bigger and taller than most of the other actors. Weller was the same way, physically. They're both lean and wiry men that had to be so in order to fit into their respective suits. I know for certain from past interviews that was the case for Weller, and I'm assuming it was the same for Kinnaman. Weller's imposing presence was the suit, that and his excellent voice and mannerisms. There's no debating that. But I also thought Kinnaman's RoboCop had somewhat of a beastly, organic look, almost like the Batsuit in Batman Begins...that whole thick-looking, almost muscular neck he has just makes his stance look imposing. And I thought his voice had a gravely, Sylvester Stallone quality I liked, although I didn't really care for the streetwise accent he sported at times as a detective. I would liked to have seen more of an overgrown boy scout persona for his Murphy, like Weller's seemed to be, as ChAnOoD alluded to...

There is one glaring thing I did find really stupid...in the infamous "black-out" scene, why did Vallon just stand there and let RoboCop shoot him? He didn't dive for cover, he didn't resort to a more powerful weapon...he just grappled with his already-proven useless gun and stands there, knowing RoboCop's gonna shoot him. I did like how RoboCop emptied his clip into Vallon, though. That was quite fitting and served him right for his stupidity. (lol)




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