| Author |
Message |
ChAnOoD
DC-L4
 
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
|
  Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:15 pm |
|
|
|
| Saasouza : | | Bad reviews ? Shure you can find a whole bunch of them - The movie is far from unanimity. But one thing is consensus, other thing is distorting facts and numbers to your own fit. For the two negative reviews you sent me, there's three other positives, including Variety, IGN, Huffington Post, Dan of geek, Hollywood reporter just to mention a few.. |
Positive critics doesnīt make a good film. While I know a lot of people who didnīt hate the flick, they moved on. Robo2014 is already forgotten, and the sense of the film on the critics were "meh" more than "oh, itīs a good film!". Most of the critics said that "I think it was going to be worse", which doesnīt mean "itīs good". Overall, they expected shit and got a boring flick. In my opinion, is worse than being a bad movie (hey, there are too many "bad movies" with good reputation for the fun they give).
|
|
 |
|
 |
Stan The Man
Bah Concepts Division
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 7020
Comment: I'm the guy in Old Archive.
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:16 pm |
|
|
|
| Quote: | | Never said it was perfect. I'm just not afraid to acknowledge the good things about it. When it comes to RoboCop i'll subscribe to anything that has a quality stamp as opposed to fabricating quality where there's any, (sequels, tv series, etc.) That's the difference. |
This is well beyond simply subscribing to something you view as something RoboCop 'that has a quality stamp'. Almost everything you've been posting here is about shooting down negative points, regardless of their merit. Including your post that started this. That aside, whatever good the film has, I don't believe, nor will ever believe, no matter how many times you argue or how many times I re-watch it, that RoboCop 2014 as it stands is a 'quality' film by itself, and certainly not a quality piece of RoboCop media. I'll watch the sequels and much of the '94 series long before I do the remake, despite their own flaws (of which they certainly have some). The difference is I'm not incessantly arguing with those who bash parts of the sequels or whatever because I don't find it so Goddamn important to validate my own view of things. You like it, fine, end of story, I'm willing to leave it be at that if you are. If you're not willing to reciprocate and/or looking for more than that I can't help you.
| Quote: | Turns out 99.9% of the good reception came from the "regular" audience, which are in my belief even more qualified to judge it, because they don't have any kind of commitments, they're unbiased and would bash the hell out of it if they didn't like it.
If here in this forum the movie was disapproved by 99% percent, in IMDB (which is a much larger community) the film had of 62% of approval. Can you see the problem ??
You can also take IMDB out of the equation if you wish: Pay a visit to a number of blogs and movie related websites and you'll find a whole bunch of good, great reviews, done by journalists, film critics - Most of them grades it at least 3 out of 5 - That's the average. |
A somewhat fair counter-point. If you ignore my previous point that popular opinion =/= quality. As Chanood said, positive reviews don't mean a film is inherently good. Besides, as Archive said, negative reviews can be found as well. Even then, you say many say it's good and great, but you also say it has a 62% ranking (which isn't great or good to me) and that many rate it as average. Make up your mind. :roll: That said, I can believe the average reviews because at best that's what the film is - Average. Which doesn't mean it's good. Which at the end of the day is all anyone other than you has really said here. As fans the only real difference is we take higher issue with it not being good, for reasons I and others (particularly RoboWags) have already said, if there's any bias it's there - in wanting the remake to have been better when it simply isn't.
I wouldn't really care except I can't stand the fact you're (still) putting the bad reception here solely on us not giving the film a fair shot when again, we've all seen the film and the fact is the film has significant flaws - flaws that we won't look past just because we're fans of the franchise. That the film actually has good points in it doesn't change that - There are certainly good bits in the film, but the bad and mediocre ones overwhelm it to the point where at best it's again, an average film by itself, nevermind how good a Robo film it is (of which it is not good, again for reasons already stated throughout). Again, a not that good film is a not that good film, end of. You keep saying we don't like it 'cause we see it as a subpar film. And the deal is we see it's a subpar film so we don't like it. Unless one or the other yields I don't see where we go from here with this except in circles.
| Quote: | | You can say whatever you want, you can argue the movie is bland, that "key" ideas are underdeveloped, that the suit looks bad or whatever but in the end, you know that is blind fandom what's really clouding your judgement. |
As stated, that door swings both ways. Otherwise, again, if there's any aspect of fandom that applies, is that again I really wish it was better. But I'm not gonna bullshit and say it is when it isn't to me. Fan though I may be I can still have my own opinions, thanks. And likewise, so can you. And it can be left at that. Having said that, as has also been said before on here, just because it says 'RoboCop' doesn't mean we have to swallow it up and go for dessert - We can demand some level of quality, lest we keep getting stuck with things that are at best only 'average'.
Finally -
| Saasouza : | | My mistake was to put so much faith in the fans believing they would eventually get into it because of their previous knowlegment and devotion to the character. |
BAH. You are again projecting a condescending tone with that shit. So we've failed to live up to your arguably unreasonable expectations - as if that's what we're really here for - because we still aren't 'getting' the brilliance and greatness of RemakeCop when you won't for one second hear that we honestly don't see the film as either brilliant or great. Even if you were actually right (which you aren't), your disappointment we didn't 'get into' the film is not our problem anyway. Certainly not mine, at least. I don't see why it should be yours, either. The only one making such a stink about this is you. You seem quite heavily invested in shooting down any flaw the movie has that we note more than praising what you call it's good points, many of which are in fact quite debatable. Maybe you need to ask yourself why it's so important to you we accept your position the remake is really such a good film. As I said you can like what we see as a subpar product and leave it at that, whatever. But not reciprocating is just being stubborn and and going so hard after us because we don't agree with you is rather trying. I'd also appreciate it if you don't devolve this into a debate over fans and fandom, as it would be, aside from being totally off-topic (something you seemed to have ignored going in, BTW) frankly, quite shitty. Don't go there.
That said, an inherently poor film doesn't simply get better with time and asking fans to look past the problems with the film and accept it as a truely good film both in itself and as part of our franchise for the sake of fandom is ridiculous. That same argument was made back with PD and most of those awful Avatar comics and it met with the same exact sentiment, and not only from myself.
In closing, again, R2014, is just not that good a film. That we even have a topic discussing 'what went wrong' with several pages is support of that by itself. It may not be a horrible film, not even bad, but it's still not good. I find it in a nutshell decent, but lacking, for a variety of reasons I've stated already. May only be my opinion, but that's it and if you want anything else from me, I guarantee you will be disappointed.
More than that, what cannot be denied is that the remake has failed to effectively revive real interest in what is otherwise a dead franchise. Who is even talking about RoboCop much less the remake itself anymore aside from us? It has left no impression on people, not made any real mark, either on it's own or as a reboot of an established film icon of the past. It has not even garnered enough interest or viability for serious consideration of another film, or more professional products anywhere on that level - Not as far as I'm aware. Praise won't change that. Admittedly bashing won't change that either but as this topic was made to discuss failures of the reboot the latter is rather expected. Some debate on it is one thing, but to have with every little point we bring up be shot down or dismissed because you can't stand that most of us don't care for the film is again, just trying. Perhaps consider starting a new topic going over good things about the reboot, that energy may be better spent there. Not being an asshole with this, just a thought.
_________________
I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!
|
|
|
|
|
Saasouza
L-L1
Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Post Count: 430
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:20 am |
|
|
|
Stan the Man,
There's no such thing as "why it is so important we agree with you". I think you're overstimating me. I'm not even a regular member here. But once we start a debate, i see no reason why i should shy away from it when i have my convictions. After all, this is the reason why this forum exist, right ? I spend time here, you spend time and we exchange ideas.
Now, back to the point: You may think i'm alone here but this time it isn't me, or journalists or imdb who's saying: It's the man who wrote the shit.
http://youtu.be/9fjMAWW9NwQ
Skip to 32:28
_________________
this
|
|
|
|
|
Stan The Man
Bah Concepts Division
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 7020
Comment: I'm the guy in Old Archive.
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:04 am |
|
|
|
At least you're refocusing and condensing a good bit in this last post here, which is something I guess. Still, my ultimate point isn't that you're alone in your view. Indeed you are not. My point is that it doesn't matter how many aggregate rankings you cite, who you can find that shares your viewpoint - We've seen the film and judged for ourselves accordingly and, get this, we have our convictions about it too, and like you, we're pretty much sticking to them. You had said maybe we can't stand that you like the film. Well not to go back to 'the door swings both ways' but could this not instead - or at least, also - maybe be you not standing that we don't? Bah.
If all you're interested in here is to convince us R2014 is worthy of our praise, again, you're likely gonna be in for a disappointment. I've seen it four times already and while my initial thoughts didn't get much worse with subsequent viewings, they didn't get any better either. If I could I'd re-watch it again right now for your benefit but it's unlikely I would glean anything better out of it if I did so. Otherwise I really have no desire to revisit it again anytime soon. I don't care for it much. That's basically it for me. If you really wanna debate incessantly and keep going back and forth well it's your free time I guess, but for myself, I don't care to keep going in circles. Hence why I actually tried to steer the topic off this with my other post regarding the bike and so on.
As to the video, that's actually one of two men who 'wrote the shit'. And the other man - as well as the director, the lead actor, the lead actress and quite possibly several other people who helped create the original - don't agree with him. See what I mean about this going in circles? That said interesting remarks. Though remarks I don't agree with either really.. I mean, Jose did ok with what he had, what he had being weak and soulless isn't so much his fault.. But I don't think he did such a 'great job' personally, and while I could see Robo as a 'rebootable' character as Miner suggests, R2014 was just not a good execution on that for me. At the end of the day I freely admit I don't get how anyone could see this as such a fine film but again, basically, whatever. Bah again.
_________________
I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!
|
|
|
|
|
Saasouza
L-L1
Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Post Count: 430
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:05 pm |
|
|
|
Yes, i think we exhausted that topic.
The fact the RoboCop fan base is so depolarized made me want to be just that counterweight that was missing here and the good thing about it is that anyone, members or not, can stop by and decide on their own. This is much more important for me than proving myself right or forcefeed my views.
Thank you for the time you spent here in this debate. Take care
_________________
this
|
|
|
|
|
RoboHell
RoboPops!
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Post Count: 2874
Comment: Murphy had a wife and son....what happend to them?
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:17 pm |
|
|
|
I also think you being from Brazil makes you a little more biased towards the remake. Should we call that "blind fandom"
I remember you and your buddy's being so excited because someone from your country was directing this movie, saying its going to be great, possible better than the original. That's "Blind Fandom"
I'm like Archive, I really wanted to like the movie...I wanted to love it, and it's not my RoboFandom that makes biased, its that it is such a bad movie, that makes me hate it.
Since day one, before a single shot was filmed, in your eyes...this movie has been better than the original.
Your "Blind Fandom" has blinded you, even with the evidence of mediocrity, you still choose not to see.
_________________
|
|
|
|
|
Stan The Man
Bah Concepts Division
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 7020
Comment: I'm the guy in Old Archive.
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:41 pm |
|
|
|
| Saasouza : | Yes, i think we exhausted that topic.
The fact the RoboCop fan base is so depolarized made me want to be just that counterweight that was missing here and the good thing about it is that anyone, members or not, can stop by and decide on their own. This is much more important for me than proving myself right or forcefeed my views.
Thank you for the time you spent here in this debate. Take care |
That's fine, but being that 'counterweight' will entail some shit, just how it is, man. Not without reasons, either. But it applies to more than the remake. Look at all the talks we had about PD, we mention folks that were very much into PD and it's very much the same thing. Hell look at debates we had about R2 vs R3 or the comics you'll find a bit more 'polarization' there I assure you. We don't all agree exactly the same on everything RoboCop. At the end of the day though, we don't keep on it because we respect we all have our takes on stuff and that we're intelligent enough to have arrived on them after some consideration. On occasion sure those old debates might be brought back up for a minute but that's how it typically ends up. Maybe we might look at things a bit differently here and there and to your benefit perhaps I might when I watch the remake next. Again I doubt it but don't totally disallow for that possibility, however remote it may be.
Anyway, though it may not seem it, I give ya credit for coming back and sticking around and all that, as that's more than can be said about many of those who supported the remake almost tirelessly - Many of them we never seen on here again. As said we're not all out to get them so that's not it - It's either because the remake didn't live up their expectations and praise or they enjoy it as much as you and aren't coming on here because they don't care to have their take challenged. Again, I give you real credit for not being one of them. Even if I don't share your take.
Now I'll repeat my other post as I agree we've exhausted this particular part of the debate - At least for now, anyway..
| Mai-Selv : | Crazy enough I might not mind a sequel if it went somewhere - Either with a new story or actually committing to the point this film tried to really touch on (The 'RoboCopS' idea) while either way really taking heart of a 'lessons learned' sheet from R2014, but that most likely ain't gonna happen. Unless it does and it is that thing that is worse.  I still to this day prefer more a kind of resurrection story anyway, but whatever.
Back to topic, anyone remember all those 'epic speeches' I did about the horror of a motor bike for Robo and that turned out to be moot, not because there wasn't one but because there may as well have not been one? I seriously expected some badass but cheesy as fuck chase action with that thing and aside from a jump at the end with ED fight, well, just about nothing. Ended up being about as pointless as the hand - RebootCop really could have hopped in a Taurus like our hero did most of the time. Bah.
Speaking of which, where are these Taurus'? I know there were promo shots of 'em but they're like, nowhere in the film. Then again there's almost no other cops in the film either. ..No crime, no cops. Yeah they definitely filmed that shit in Canada.  |
_________________
I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!
|
|
|
|
|
Saasouza
L-L1
Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Post Count: 430
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:12 pm |
|
|
|
| RoboHell : | I also think you being from Brazil makes you a little more biased towards the remake. Should we call that "blind fandom"
I remember you and your buddy's being so excited because someone from your country was directing this movie, saying its going to be great, possible better than the original. That's "Blind Fandom"
I'm like Archive, I really wanted to like the movie...I wanted to love it, and it's not my RoboFandom that makes biased, its that is such a bad movie, that makes me hate it.
Since day one, before a single shot was filmed, in your eyes...this movie has been better than the original.
Your "Blind Fandom" has blinded you, even with the evidence of mediocrity, you still choose not to see. |
Yes maybe, but being brazilian also entailed that i was better qualified to judge Padilha's work as i had already seen all his movies - I knew he wasn't just a hired gun but a serious director with lots of passion and respect towards the source material. And that "buddy" of mine was not even brazilian, he was swedish, but ended up in the same bag like every R2014 supporter back then.
_________________
this
|
|
|
|
|
Saasouza
L-L1
Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Post Count: 430
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:11 pm |
|
|
|
| Stan The Man : |
That's fine, but being that 'counterweight' will entail some shit, just how it is, man. Not without reasons, either. |
Yes shure. It comes with the territory. No offense taken and i meant no offense either.
| Stan The Man : | | Anyway, though it may not seem it, I give ya credit for coming back and sticking around and all that, as that's more than can be said about many of those who supported the remake almost tirelessly - Many of them we never seen on here again. As said we're not all out to get them so that's not it - It's either because the remake didn't live up their expectations and praise or they enjoy it as much as you and aren't coming on here because they don't care to have their take challenged. Again, I give you real credit for not being one of them. Even if I don't share your take. |
Nice to hear that. I really see no reason to stop showing up from time to time. To tell you the truth, I hope we live enough to see another remake so we can debate the hell out of it.
| Mai-Selv : | Now I'll repeat my other post as I agree we've exhausted this particular part of the debate - At least for now, anyway..
Crazy enough I might not mind a sequel if it went somewhere - Either with a new story or actually committing to the point this film tried to really touch on (The 'RoboCopS' idea) while either way really taking heart of a 'lessons learned' sheet from R2014, but that most likely ain't gonna happen. Unless it does and it is that thing that is worse. I still to this day prefer more a kind of resurrection story anyway, but whatever.
Back to topic, anyone remember all those 'epic speeches' I did about the horror of a motor bike for Robo and that turned out to be moot, not because there wasn't one but because there may as well have not been one? I seriously expected some badass but cheesy as fuck chase action with that thing and aside from a jump at the end with ED fight, well, just about nothing. Ended up being about as pointless as the hand - RebootCop really could have hopped in a Taurus like our hero did most of the time. Bah.
Speaking of which, where are these Taurus'? I know there were promo shots of 'em but they're like, nowhere in the film. Then again there's almost no other cops in the film either. ..No crime, no cops. Yeah they definitely filmed that shit in Canada. |
Strangely enough i don't think i'd like the idea of a sequel. I just don't see how they could develop that story any further without being silly. They tried it with the original franchise and it didn't really worked for me. Shure, Robo 2 has some good moments but i think the ressurection thing is what really drives the story when it comes to RoboCop. if that story is already told then there's not much to portray without being too comic bookish.
Although i'm very prone to accept a new remake. A different take with a different director. i mean, really different from both Verhoeven and Padilha. For instance i'd love to see that Daren Aronofsky's version.
As for the Taurus, If i recall it correctly, there's only one scene in the movie that its shown. but it's a very short segment.
_________________
this
|
|
|
|
|
Saasouza
L-L1
Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Post Count: 430
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:20 am |
|
|
|
LOL "nancy allen is ugly and peter weller is trash" ??? That's the lamest thing i heard in awhile
Will you change my profile picture too ? LOL
|
|
|
|
|
Archive
.
Joined: 17 Nov 2001
Post Count: 6533
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:26 am |
|
|
|
| Quote: | | Peter Weller is trash and Verhoeven couldn't direct a shit out of his ass into the toilet. Nancy Allen is ugly and that dude from That 70's show is a joke of a villain. The 1987 movie called 'Robocop' is shit and if you don't agree, go fuck yourself! |
Oh wow!
Just so that there is no misunderstanding or thoughts of mod abuse.
All forum users can change other forum users or your own "custom title" in the shop.
http://www.robocoparchive.com/board/shop_effects.php?action=specialshop
|
|
|
|
|
Stan The Man
Bah Concepts Division
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 7020
Comment: I'm the guy in Old Archive.
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:34 am |
|
|
|
^ This is true. That said, that shit really ain't cool. Even if a part of me might get a chuckle out of it. Fortunately dude's being a good sport. Anyway...
| Quote: | | Strangely enough i don't think i'd like the idea of a sequel. I just don't see how they could develop that story any further without being silly. They tried it with the original franchise and it didn't really worked for me. Shure, Robo 2 has some good moments but i think the ressurection thing is what really drives the story when it comes to RoboCop. if that story is already told then there's not much to portray without being too comic bookish. |
Again, depends on how it's done. A continuation could work with some good ideas. Robo for all it's grounding in reality (albeit a bit exaggerated) is also quite comic-book like to a degree. I agree it would be problematic though.
_________________
I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!
|
|
|
|
|
RoboFan_93
Would Buy You For a Dollar
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Post Count: 4165
Comment: Scumbags see the judge on Monday morning
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:36 am |
|
|
|
| Stan The Man : |
Again, depends on how it's done. A continuation could work with some good ideas. Robo for all it's grounding in reality (albeit a bit exaggerated) is also quite comic-book like to a degree. I agree it would be problematic though. |
I have an idea. Why don't they give him roller blades, put some net-launchers in his arms, a microwave oven in his chest and have him skate around the bad guys and say "Oh, yeah!".
_________________
Anything you post can be used against you!
|
|
|
|
|
Stan The Man
Bah Concepts Division
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 7020
Comment: I'm the guy in Old Archive.
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:43 am |
|
|
|
| RoboFan_93 : | | I have an idea. Why don't they give him roller blades, put some net-launchers in his arms, a microwave oven in his chest and have him skate around the bad guys and say "Oh, yeah!". |
Why, Mr. Fan - That is wonderful. Thank you so much!
Bah. Again, much as I don't care for R2014, I might not dismiss a continuation from it totally out of hand. Would hardly be my ideal way to proceed though. As was said before, seeing him return to something of a TV format might be nice in this day and age, what with Netflix and online networks that have no restrictions on content and a lower number of episodes for each season that they do.
But that's veering off the topic again. So to drag us back a bit... It has been said the use of both suits in the film was an erratic choice (I think artu said that, actually), which I agree. I thought it was peculiar then and still do. I really wish they had stuck with the original color-style suit. While I don't like the reboot suit design the old scheme was a good bit more palatable to me. The all black version was basically just funky and not in a good way.
_________________
I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Log in for PM
Log in
What went wrong with RoboCop 2014
11786
