Hob's death chat with Robo

[Maxlee]

When discussing RoboCop 2 you often hear how people hated Hob's character and how "wrong" it was of the movie to expect sympathy when he finally dies.

This brings up an interesting discussion if Hob really was a vile piece of sh*t that deserved to die, or if he was still a kid/child brought up under wrong circumstances.

This made me start thinking lately, that Hob's deathbed scene with RoboCop is probably the last time, and perhaps only time, the movie could have shed some more light on Hob's character.

Here's some pieces of dialogue I came up with, that would have given us some more background info.


RoboCop: "Who did this?"
Hob: "It was Cain. He's bigger than you."
RoboCop: "You're safe from him now."
Hob: "He took me in was I was just a homeless crook. Trying to make me into his successor or some shit."
RoboCop: "He will pay for his crimes."
Hob: "We did horrible things to you... I did horrible things to you..."
RoboCop: "It's okay."
Hob: "You're a kind man. Perhaps we could have met... under different c..."
RoboCop: "I wish we could have."


Hob: "He was the only father I ever had."

Hob: "He saved me from the streets."

Hob: "We almost killed you. I almost killed you."
RoboCop: "It's a recurring theme."

Hob: "We treated you like shit. I treated you like shit."
RoboCop: "I have few friends."


Maybe this sparks some ideas for you as well?

[Joined]

When discussing RoboCop 2 you often hear how people hated Hob's character and how "wrong" it was of the movie to expect sympathy when he finally dies.

This brings up an interesting discussion if Hob really was a vile piece of sh*t that deserved to die, or if he was still a kid/child brought up under wrong circumstances.

This made me start thinking lately, that Hob's deathbed scene with RoboCop is probably the last time, and perhaps only time, the movie could have shed some more light on Hob's character.

Here's some pieces of dialogue I came up with, that would have given us some more background info.


RoboCop: "Who did this?"
Hob: "It was Cain. He's bigger than you."
RoboCop: "You're safe from him now."
Hob: "He took me in was I was just a homeless crook. Trying to make me into his successor or some shit."
RoboCop: "He will pay for his crimes."
Hob: "We did horrible things to you... I did horrible things to you..."
RoboCop: "It's okay."
Hob: "You're a kind man. Perhaps we could have met... under different c..."
RoboCop: "I wish we could have."


Hob: "He was the only father I ever had."

Hob: "He saved me from the streets."

Hob: "We almost killed you. I almost killed you."
RoboCop: "It's a recurring theme."

Hob: "We treated you like shit. I treated you like shit."
RoboCop: "I have few friends."


Maybe this sparks some ideas for you as well?

[Post Count]

When discussing RoboCop 2 you often hear how people hated Hob's character and how "wrong" it was of the movie to expect sympathy when he finally dies.

This brings up an interesting discussion if Hob really was a vile piece of sh*t that deserved to die, or if he was still a kid/child brought up under wrong circumstances.

This made me start thinking lately, that Hob's deathbed scene with RoboCop is probably the last time, and perhaps only time, the movie could have shed some more light on Hob's character.

Here's some pieces of dialogue I came up with, that would have given us some more background info.


RoboCop: "Who did this?"
Hob: "It was Cain. He's bigger than you."
RoboCop: "You're safe from him now."
Hob: "He took me in was I was just a homeless crook. Trying to make me into his successor or some shit."
RoboCop: "He will pay for his crimes."
Hob: "We did horrible things to you... I did horrible things to you..."
RoboCop: "It's okay."
Hob: "You're a kind man. Perhaps we could have met... under different c..."
RoboCop: "I wish we could have."


Hob: "He was the only father I ever had."

Hob: "He saved me from the streets."

Hob: "We almost killed you. I almost killed you."
RoboCop: "It's a recurring theme."

Hob: "We treated you like shit. I treated you like shit."
RoboCop: "I have few friends."


Maybe this sparks some ideas for you as well?

[RoboJOF]

Respectfully, I think that the movie makers created that scene to make up for the fact that they treated Robocop so coldly in the scene with his wife earlier in the film. As though by placing this attempted compassionate scene with Robocop and the kid that shot him in the face, it would somehow restore Robocop's humanity from the point that he wished it away (when to pretended that he was just a machine with his wife at OCP's demand).
I think that the movie makers should have taken a bold step and made Robocop be a cold a calculating machine (because he should still be pissed from what he had to say to his wife). Here is what I would have done:

Robocop enters garage and sees the van full of money blown apart and the kid lying there.
Robocop: Who did this (serious tone).
Hob: He was big. Bigger than you.
Robocop turns to leave following the traces of Robocain.
Hob: wait, aren't you gonna help me?
Robocop turns
Robocop: Please remain calm. I will request a medical unit.
Hob: Don't leave me.
Robocop: I had a son once. Like you, but I had to make a choice. I must get this thing off the streets. I must protect the innocent.
Hob: What? But you're just a cop! You can't stop it. You're supposed to help people!
Robocop: I am a cop. And you are a criminal. You have made some poor choices. There is nothing I can do for you now.
Robocop leaves as Hob expires.

What do you think? Too harsh?

[Joined]

Respectfully, I think that the movie makers created that scene to make up for the fact that they treated Robocop so coldly in the scene with his wife earlier in the film. As though by placing this attempted compassionate scene with Robocop and the kid that shot him in the face, it would somehow restore Robocop's humanity from the point that he wished it away (when to pretended that he was just a machine with his wife at OCP's demand).
I think that the movie makers should have taken a bold step and made Robocop be a cold a calculating machine (because he should still be pissed from what he had to say to his wife). Here is what I would have done:

Robocop enters garage and sees the van full of money blown apart and the kid lying there.
Robocop: Who did this (serious tone).
Hob: He was big. Bigger than you.
Robocop turns to leave following the traces of Robocain.
Hob: wait, aren't you gonna help me?
Robocop turns
Robocop: Please remain calm. I will request a medical unit.
Hob: Don't leave me.
Robocop: I had a son once. Like you, but I had to make a choice. I must get this thing off the streets. I must protect the innocent.
Hob: What? But you're just a cop! You can't stop it. You're supposed to help people!
Robocop: I am a cop. And you are a criminal. You have made some poor choices. There is nothing I can do for you now.
Robocop leaves as Hob expires.

What do you think? Too harsh?

[Post Count]

Respectfully, I think that the movie makers created that scene to make up for the fact that they treated Robocop so coldly in the scene with his wife earlier in the film. As though by placing this attempted compassionate scene with Robocop and the kid that shot him in the face, it would somehow restore Robocop's humanity from the point that he wished it away (when to pretended that he was just a machine with his wife at OCP's demand).
I think that the movie makers should have taken a bold step and made Robocop be a cold a calculating machine (because he should still be pissed from what he had to say to his wife). Here is what I would have done:

Robocop enters garage and sees the van full of money blown apart and the kid lying there.
Robocop: Who did this (serious tone).
Hob: He was big. Bigger than you.
Robocop turns to leave following the traces of Robocain.
Hob: wait, aren't you gonna help me?
Robocop turns
Robocop: Please remain calm. I will request a medical unit.
Hob: Don't leave me.
Robocop: I had a son once. Like you, but I had to make a choice. I must get this thing off the streets. I must protect the innocent.
Hob: What? But you're just a cop! You can't stop it. You're supposed to help people!
Robocop: I am a cop. And you are a criminal. You have made some poor choices. There is nothing I can do for you now.
Robocop leaves as Hob expires.

What do you think? Too harsh?

[Comment]

Respectfully, I think that the movie makers created that scene to make up for the fact that they treated Robocop so coldly in the scene with his wife earlier in the film. As though by placing this attempted compassionate scene with Robocop and the kid that shot him in the face, it would somehow restore Robocop's humanity from the point that he wished it away (when to pretended that he was just a machine with his wife at OCP's demand).
I think that the movie makers should have taken a bold step and made Robocop be a cold a calculating machine (because he should still be pissed from what he had to say to his wife). Here is what I would have done:

Robocop enters garage and sees the van full of money blown apart and the kid lying there.
Robocop: Who did this (serious tone).
Hob: He was big. Bigger than you.
Robocop turns to leave following the traces of Robocain.
Hob: wait, aren't you gonna help me?
Robocop turns
Robocop: Please remain calm. I will request a medical unit.
Hob: Don't leave me.
Robocop: I had a son once. Like you, but I had to make a choice. I must get this thing off the streets. I must protect the innocent.
Hob: What? But you're just a cop! You can't stop it. You're supposed to help people!
Robocop: I am a cop. And you are a criminal. You have made some poor choices. There is nothing I can do for you now.
Robocop leaves as Hob expires.

What do you think? Too harsh?

[artuditu]

I think you both are throwing too much exposition in those dialogues. I like Hob's last scene, it tries to be poetic with a few lines. He was vicious in the rest of the movie, and at the end he is just a vulnerable kid facing death who needs a caretaker close to comfort him. All little children need a caretaker, if they don't have one they try to establish a link with someone.

Nevertheless I find a bit interesting Maxlee's idea of Hob saying sorry for dismantling Robo, but still it is not really needed, Murphy is a good man and father, he has no resentment towards a little kid, as bad influenced as he was.

Cain's gang had a reminiscence of a dysfunctional family, as if every member suffered social marginalization previously (originated by drugs probably) and they found each other and built a reunited family. Robo at the same time has lost his family, he is metaphorically a brother to them despite fighting them, and you can sense how he has a subconscious connection with Hob throughout the whole film, he thinks of the son he has lost. Probably his hate for Cain is also so personal because of Hob, Murphy tried to be a good role model to his son, and he can't stand seeing Cain having such a bad influence on a kid.

By the way, I heard the other day from a youtuber how wrong was Hob's character, making the film too mean spirited, and then over the top when he becomes the big druglord and his henchmen listen to him. I always found it interesting and funny, even if over the top, it was one of those things that gave the film a comic book feel.

[Joined]

I think you both are throwing too much exposition in those dialogues. I like Hob's last scene, it tries to be poetic with a few lines. He was vicious in the rest of the movie, and at the end he is just a vulnerable kid facing death who needs a caretaker close to comfort him. All little children need a caretaker, if they don't have one they try to establish a link with someone.

Nevertheless I find a bit interesting Maxlee's idea of Hob saying sorry for dismantling Robo, but still it is not really needed, Murphy is a good man and father, he has no resentment towards a little kid, as bad influenced as he was.

Cain's gang had a reminiscence of a dysfunctional family, as if every member suffered social marginalization previously (originated by drugs probably) and they found each other and built a reunited family. Robo at the same time has lost his family, he is metaphorically a brother to them despite fighting them, and you can sense how he has a subconscious connection with Hob throughout the whole film, he thinks of the son he has lost. Probably his hate for Cain is also so personal because of Hob, Murphy tried to be a good role model to his son, and he can't stand seeing Cain having such a bad influence on a kid.

By the way, I heard the other day from a youtuber how wrong was Hob's character, making the film too mean spirited, and then over the top when he becomes the big druglord and his henchmen listen to him. I always found it interesting and funny, even if over the top, it was one of those things that gave the film a comic book feel.

[Post Count]

I think you both are throwing too much exposition in those dialogues. I like Hob's last scene, it tries to be poetic with a few lines. He was vicious in the rest of the movie, and at the end he is just a vulnerable kid facing death who needs a caretaker close to comfort him. All little children need a caretaker, if they don't have one they try to establish a link with someone.

Nevertheless I find a bit interesting Maxlee's idea of Hob saying sorry for dismantling Robo, but still it is not really needed, Murphy is a good man and father, he has no resentment towards a little kid, as bad influenced as he was.

Cain's gang had a reminiscence of a dysfunctional family, as if every member suffered social marginalization previously (originated by drugs probably) and they found each other and built a reunited family. Robo at the same time has lost his family, he is metaphorically a brother to them despite fighting them, and you can sense how he has a subconscious connection with Hob throughout the whole film, he thinks of the son he has lost. Probably his hate for Cain is also so personal because of Hob, Murphy tried to be a good role model to his son, and he can't stand seeing Cain having such a bad influence on a kid.

By the way, I heard the other day from a youtuber how wrong was Hob's character, making the film too mean spirited, and then over the top when he becomes the big druglord and his henchmen listen to him. I always found it interesting and funny, even if over the top, it was one of those things that gave the film a comic book feel.

[Comment]

I think you both are throwing too much exposition in those dialogues. I like Hob's last scene, it tries to be poetic with a few lines. He was vicious in the rest of the movie, and at the end he is just a vulnerable kid facing death who needs a caretaker close to comfort him. All little children need a caretaker, if they don't have one they try to establish a link with someone.

Nevertheless I find a bit interesting Maxlee's idea of Hob saying sorry for dismantling Robo, but still it is not really needed, Murphy is a good man and father, he has no resentment towards a little kid, as bad influenced as he was.

Cain's gang had a reminiscence of a dysfunctional family, as if every member suffered social marginalization previously (originated by drugs probably) and they found each other and built a reunited family. Robo at the same time has lost his family, he is metaphorically a brother to them despite fighting them, and you can sense how he has a subconscious connection with Hob throughout the whole film, he thinks of the son he has lost. Probably his hate for Cain is also so personal because of Hob, Murphy tried to be a good role model to his son, and he can't stand seeing Cain having such a bad influence on a kid.

By the way, I heard the other day from a youtuber how wrong was Hob's character, making the film too mean spirited, and then over the top when he becomes the big druglord and his henchmen listen to him. I always found it interesting and funny, even if over the top, it was one of those things that gave the film a comic book feel.

[Maxlee]

RoboCop treating a dying Hob like dirt might better reflect the audience's feelings towards Hob, but yeah, RoboCop is or was a father and Hob is a dying kid. Even in the film, RoboCop DOES want to treat Hob coldly ("Help is on the way" and then he starts to walk away) but then Hob reaches out to RoboCop and almost begs him to stay with him.

I do agree that adding background info (exposition) to this scene might be a bit too much, but yeah viewers wanted to know more about Cain, Angie and Hob, so you got to stick that information somewhere.

Hob feeling sorry for all the crap they put RoboCop through is atleast a small tidbit that would have been nice, and brings some more humanity to Hob's character.



Although I could always kinda picture Cain and Angie as the father and mother, and Hob as the son, I didn't actually piece this together as villain-family versus RoboCop-without-family... interesting, artuditu.

Not wanting to derail this in yet another "How RoboCop 2 could have been improved", but yeah there's some interesting food for thought here.

- RoboCop's struggle with his former family, stalking them, and trying to let them go when confronted with them
- RoboCop's new enemy in the form of a family looking cult, with parents and a kid
- Perhaps they could have had a scene where RoboCop accesses the databanks with his dataspike (sorely missing in RoboCop 2!) to learn more about Cain, Angie and Hob.
- Seeing Cain, Angie and Hob together pains and troubles RoboCop deeply.
- When violated by Cain's gang, this feels like family being triumphant over RoboCop's lone existence.
- Even more emphasise on RoboCop wanting to save Hob from the corrupt parents Cain and Angie. When Hob dies, RoboCop vows to personally take down RoboCain.

Besides, wasn't Cain a cult leader with a messiah complex? It sometimes kinda annoys me how Cain's circle seems so small, it's just Angie and Hob, with Catzo and then a little bit that asian guy and Frank the chemist ... and that's pretty much it. As a cult messiah leader, Cain should have been worshipped by hundreds of people, giving it a sort of church feeling where everybody is worshipping Cain. How would RoboCop deal with thát?



Anyway, back to Hob's deathbed chat :P

[Joined]

RoboCop treating a dying Hob like dirt might better reflect the audience's feelings towards Hob, but yeah, RoboCop is or was a father and Hob is a dying kid. Even in the film, RoboCop DOES want to treat Hob coldly ("Help is on the way" and then he starts to walk away) but then Hob reaches out to RoboCop and almost begs him to stay with him.

I do agree that adding background info (exposition) to this scene might be a bit too much, but yeah viewers wanted to know more about Cain, Angie and Hob, so you got to stick that information somewhere.

Hob feeling sorry for all the crap they put RoboCop through is atleast a small tidbit that would have been nice, and brings some more humanity to Hob's character.



Although I could always kinda picture Cain and Angie as the father and mother, and Hob as the son, I didn't actually piece this together as villain-family versus RoboCop-without-family... interesting, artuditu.

Not wanting to derail this in yet another "How RoboCop 2 could have been improved", but yeah there's some interesting food for thought here.

- RoboCop's struggle with his former family, stalking them, and trying to let them go when confronted with them
- RoboCop's new enemy in the form of a family looking cult, with parents and a kid
- Perhaps they could have had a scene where RoboCop accesses the databanks with his dataspike (sorely missing in RoboCop 2!) to learn more about Cain, Angie and Hob.
- Seeing Cain, Angie and Hob together pains and troubles RoboCop deeply.
- When violated by Cain's gang, this feels like family being triumphant over RoboCop's lone existence.
- Even more emphasise on RoboCop wanting to save Hob from the corrupt parents Cain and Angie. When Hob dies, RoboCop vows to personally take down RoboCain.

Besides, wasn't Cain a cult leader with a messiah complex? It sometimes kinda annoys me how Cain's circle seems so small, it's just Angie and Hob, with Catzo and then a little bit that asian guy and Frank the chemist ... and that's pretty much it. As a cult messiah leader, Cain should have been worshipped by hundreds of people, giving it a sort of church feeling where everybody is worshipping Cain. How would RoboCop deal with thát?



Anyway, back to Hob's deathbed chat :P

[Post Count]

RoboCop treating a dying Hob like dirt might better reflect the audience's feelings towards Hob, but yeah, RoboCop is or was a father and Hob is a dying kid. Even in the film, RoboCop DOES want to treat Hob coldly ("Help is on the way" and then he starts to walk away) but then Hob reaches out to RoboCop and almost begs him to stay with him.

I do agree that adding background info (exposition) to this scene might be a bit too much, but yeah viewers wanted to know more about Cain, Angie and Hob, so you got to stick that information somewhere.

Hob feeling sorry for all the crap they put RoboCop through is atleast a small tidbit that would have been nice, and brings some more humanity to Hob's character.



Although I could always kinda picture Cain and Angie as the father and mother, and Hob as the son, I didn't actually piece this together as villain-family versus RoboCop-without-family... interesting, artuditu.

Not wanting to derail this in yet another "How RoboCop 2 could have been improved", but yeah there's some interesting food for thought here.

- RoboCop's struggle with his former family, stalking them, and trying to let them go when confronted with them
- RoboCop's new enemy in the form of a family looking cult, with parents and a kid
- Perhaps they could have had a scene where RoboCop accesses the databanks with his dataspike (sorely missing in RoboCop 2!) to learn more about Cain, Angie and Hob.
- Seeing Cain, Angie and Hob together pains and troubles RoboCop deeply.
- When violated by Cain's gang, this feels like family being triumphant over RoboCop's lone existence.
- Even more emphasise on RoboCop wanting to save Hob from the corrupt parents Cain and Angie. When Hob dies, RoboCop vows to personally take down RoboCain.

Besides, wasn't Cain a cult leader with a messiah complex? It sometimes kinda annoys me how Cain's circle seems so small, it's just Angie and Hob, with Catzo and then a little bit that asian guy and Frank the chemist ... and that's pretty much it. As a cult messiah leader, Cain should have been worshipped by hundreds of people, giving it a sort of church feeling where everybody is worshipping Cain. How would RoboCop deal with thát?



Anyway, back to Hob's deathbed chat :P

[RoboJOF]

I agree with you Maxlee, some of the ideas you have about Robocop 2 may have improved the film or at least made it more reminiscent of the original. I especially feel that Cain's gang could have used a little more development. Even though there were no overt connections between the baddies in Boddiker's gang in the original (especially when some were killed off, no sorrow on their passing), we still get the feeling (from the database research Robocop does) that these guys are a crew that work together often. Clarence also addresses and directs them as though they were together for a long time.
The Cain-Angie-Hob relationship is ambiguous and perhaps could have been more well-defined, but just wasn't in the movie. For all we know Angie and Cain were together and Hob was their dealer on the streets but its also possible that everyone in his gang was addicted to Nuke, they may have just followed him around because he was making it. As for his cult leader status, some of that may have been his own delusional propaganda. He may have wanted to be some sort of messiah, but again, how do we know where people's loyalties lie when they are all addicted to a drug. I didn't get the impression that Officer Duffy was a follower, but rather an addict and that compelled him to cooperate with Cain. I'm not sure which alternative would have been more appealing in the movie, Cain as a powerful cult leader or just a highly influential drug lord. It seems the movie took the latter view (in my opinion) because Cain operated with little help and there weren't drones that carried out his bidding. Had it gone the other way, there could have been more action sequences with crazed followers attacking cops and Robocop. That might have been cool, but I also liked the ragtag team of bad guys against Robocop, the lone gunslinger style of the first movie, so maybe it wouldn't have worked.
Good thoughts on Robocop 2, it is a great movie in my mind because it continues the story of Robocop's exploits in a whole new way. It has it's moments of silliness, but I think that occurred when the OCP storyline got in the way instead of propelling the Robocop character story.
I think that my feelings on Hob have more to do with the way that Robocop operates in the movie. He starts off with his humanity intact, then has to forsake it to appease OCP, then he gets his brain scrambled after OCP fixes him and he acts loopy, and then he goes back to being himself. The final scene makes him sound "human" but I guess because it isn't a natural progression in the movie, it seems scattered. I would think that he would be angry about giving up on his family and would do act human and take it out on his enemies (like he does with Cain in the end). His sympathy for Hob shows his humanity, but then the movie just moves on. Maybe if he had a flashback to his own life and then tried to make sense of it, the scene might have had more impact (like when he remembers his home in the first movie as he visits what is left). I don't mean to keep referring back to the original, but it was a great starting place, I still like Robocop 2 as it is, but I will always wonder about how it could have been done differently.

[Joined]

I agree with you Maxlee, some of the ideas you have about Robocop 2 may have improved the film or at least made it more reminiscent of the original. I especially feel that Cain's gang could have used a little more development. Even though there were no overt connections between the baddies in Boddiker's gang in the original (especially when some were killed off, no sorrow on their passing), we still get the feeling (from the database research Robocop does) that these guys are a crew that work together often. Clarence also addresses and directs them as though they were together for a long time.
The Cain-Angie-Hob relationship is ambiguous and perhaps could have been more well-defined, but just wasn't in the movie. For all we know Angie and Cain were together and Hob was their dealer on the streets but its also possible that everyone in his gang was addicted to Nuke, they may have just followed him around because he was making it. As for his cult leader status, some of that may have been his own delusional propaganda. He may have wanted to be some sort of messiah, but again, how do we know where people's loyalties lie when they are all addicted to a drug. I didn't get the impression that Officer Duffy was a follower, but rather an addict and that compelled him to cooperate with Cain. I'm not sure which alternative would have been more appealing in the movie, Cain as a powerful cult leader or just a highly influential drug lord. It seems the movie took the latter view (in my opinion) because Cain operated with little help and there weren't drones that carried out his bidding. Had it gone the other way, there could have been more action sequences with crazed followers attacking cops and Robocop. That might have been cool, but I also liked the ragtag team of bad guys against Robocop, the lone gunslinger style of the first movie, so maybe it wouldn't have worked.
Good thoughts on Robocop 2, it is a great movie in my mind because it continues the story of Robocop's exploits in a whole new way. It has it's moments of silliness, but I think that occurred when the OCP storyline got in the way instead of propelling the Robocop character story.
I think that my feelings on Hob have more to do with the way that Robocop operates in the movie. He starts off with his humanity intact, then has to forsake it to appease OCP, then he gets his brain scrambled after OCP fixes him and he acts loopy, and then he goes back to being himself. The final scene makes him sound "human" but I guess because it isn't a natural progression in the movie, it seems scattered. I would think that he would be angry about giving up on his family and would do act human and take it out on his enemies (like he does with Cain in the end). His sympathy for Hob shows his humanity, but then the movie just moves on. Maybe if he had a flashback to his own life and then tried to make sense of it, the scene might have had more impact (like when he remembers his home in the first movie as he visits what is left). I don't mean to keep referring back to the original, but it was a great starting place, I still like Robocop 2 as it is, but I will always wonder about how it could have been done differently.

[Post Count]

I agree with you Maxlee, some of the ideas you have about Robocop 2 may have improved the film or at least made it more reminiscent of the original. I especially feel that Cain's gang could have used a little more development. Even though there were no overt connections between the baddies in Boddiker's gang in the original (especially when some were killed off, no sorrow on their passing), we still get the feeling (from the database research Robocop does) that these guys are a crew that work together often. Clarence also addresses and directs them as though they were together for a long time.
The Cain-Angie-Hob relationship is ambiguous and perhaps could have been more well-defined, but just wasn't in the movie. For all we know Angie and Cain were together and Hob was their dealer on the streets but its also possible that everyone in his gang was addicted to Nuke, they may have just followed him around because he was making it. As for his cult leader status, some of that may have been his own delusional propaganda. He may have wanted to be some sort of messiah, but again, how do we know where people's loyalties lie when they are all addicted to a drug. I didn't get the impression that Officer Duffy was a follower, but rather an addict and that compelled him to cooperate with Cain. I'm not sure which alternative would have been more appealing in the movie, Cain as a powerful cult leader or just a highly influential drug lord. It seems the movie took the latter view (in my opinion) because Cain operated with little help and there weren't drones that carried out his bidding. Had it gone the other way, there could have been more action sequences with crazed followers attacking cops and Robocop. That might have been cool, but I also liked the ragtag team of bad guys against Robocop, the lone gunslinger style of the first movie, so maybe it wouldn't have worked.
Good thoughts on Robocop 2, it is a great movie in my mind because it continues the story of Robocop's exploits in a whole new way. It has it's moments of silliness, but I think that occurred when the OCP storyline got in the way instead of propelling the Robocop character story.
I think that my feelings on Hob have more to do with the way that Robocop operates in the movie. He starts off with his humanity intact, then has to forsake it to appease OCP, then he gets his brain scrambled after OCP fixes him and he acts loopy, and then he goes back to being himself. The final scene makes him sound "human" but I guess because it isn't a natural progression in the movie, it seems scattered. I would think that he would be angry about giving up on his family and would do act human and take it out on his enemies (like he does with Cain in the end). His sympathy for Hob shows his humanity, but then the movie just moves on. Maybe if he had a flashback to his own life and then tried to make sense of it, the scene might have had more impact (like when he remembers his home in the first movie as he visits what is left). I don't mean to keep referring back to the original, but it was a great starting place, I still like Robocop 2 as it is, but I will always wonder about how it could have been done differently.

[Comment]

I agree with you Maxlee, some of the ideas you have about Robocop 2 may have improved the film or at least made it more reminiscent of the original. I especially feel that Cain's gang could have used a little more development. Even though there were no overt connections between the baddies in Boddiker's gang in the original (especially when some were killed off, no sorrow on their passing), we still get the feeling (from the database research Robocop does) that these guys are a crew that work together often. Clarence also addresses and directs them as though they were together for a long time.
The Cain-Angie-Hob relationship is ambiguous and perhaps could have been more well-defined, but just wasn't in the movie. For all we know Angie and Cain were together and Hob was their dealer on the streets but its also possible that everyone in his gang was addicted to Nuke, they may have just followed him around because he was making it. As for his cult leader status, some of that may have been his own delusional propaganda. He may have wanted to be some sort of messiah, but again, how do we know where people's loyalties lie when they are all addicted to a drug. I didn't get the impression that Officer Duffy was a follower, but rather an addict and that compelled him to cooperate with Cain. I'm not sure which alternative would have been more appealing in the movie, Cain as a powerful cult leader or just a highly influential drug lord. It seems the movie took the latter view (in my opinion) because Cain operated with little help and there weren't drones that carried out his bidding. Had it gone the other way, there could have been more action sequences with crazed followers attacking cops and Robocop. That might have been cool, but I also liked the ragtag team of bad guys against Robocop, the lone gunslinger style of the first movie, so maybe it wouldn't have worked.
Good thoughts on Robocop 2, it is a great movie in my mind because it continues the story of Robocop's exploits in a whole new way. It has it's moments of silliness, but I think that occurred when the OCP storyline got in the way instead of propelling the Robocop character story.
I think that my feelings on Hob have more to do with the way that Robocop operates in the movie. He starts off with his humanity intact, then has to forsake it to appease OCP, then he gets his brain scrambled after OCP fixes him and he acts loopy, and then he goes back to being himself. The final scene makes him sound "human" but I guess because it isn't a natural progression in the movie, it seems scattered. I would think that he would be angry about giving up on his family and would do act human and take it out on his enemies (like he does with Cain in the end). His sympathy for Hob shows his humanity, but then the movie just moves on. Maybe if he had a flashback to his own life and then tried to make sense of it, the scene might have had more impact (like when he remembers his home in the first movie as he visits what is left). I don't mean to keep referring back to the original, but it was a great starting place, I still like Robocop 2 as it is, but I will always wonder about how it could have been done differently.

[Edd 209]

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[SilverMaiden]

How about

Robocop walks past the van and hear something from within. He opens the door to check and he sees Hob laying there, dying. He remembers what a piece of shit Hob is so he unloads a clip in his chest. He then moonwalks in pursuit of Cain.

[Joined]

How about

Robocop walks past the van and hear something from within. He opens the door to check and he sees Hob laying there, dying. He remembers what a piece of shit Hob is so he unloads a clip in his chest. He then moonwalks in pursuit of Cain.

[Post Count]

How about

Robocop walks past the van and hear something from within. He opens the door to check and he sees Hob laying there, dying. He remembers what a piece of shit Hob is so he unloads a clip in his chest. He then moonwalks in pursuit of Cain.

[Maxlee]

To be honest, I was expecting a reply like that in the first place :P

Or how about:

RoboCop opens the van's door.
Hob: "Help me, I'm dying!"
RoboCop with pointy finger in front of his lips: "Shhhhh..."
RoboCop casually closes the door of the van.

Last we see of Hob


Or hey, RoboCop smears his hand in the bloodsoaked dollar bills and sprays it in Hob's face. "How's it taste?" Poetic justice indeed.

[Joined]

To be honest, I was expecting a reply like that in the first place :P

Or how about:

RoboCop opens the van's door.
Hob: "Help me, I'm dying!"
RoboCop with pointy finger in front of his lips: "Shhhhh..."
RoboCop casually closes the door of the van.

Last we see of Hob


Or hey, RoboCop smears his hand in the bloodsoaked dollar bills and sprays it in Hob's face. "How's it taste?" Poetic justice indeed.

[Post Count]

To be honest, I was expecting a reply like that in the first place :P

Or how about:

RoboCop opens the van's door.
Hob: "Help me, I'm dying!"
RoboCop with pointy finger in front of his lips: "Shhhhh..."
RoboCop casually closes the door of the van.

Last we see of Hob


Or hey, RoboCop smears his hand in the bloodsoaked dollar bills and sprays it in Hob's face. "How's it taste?" Poetic justice indeed.

[Stan The Man]

Heh, and to think how R2 is already considered cold and nasty as it is.

Anyway, without having much time to go into stuff, I'll just say I'm with JOF and artu for the most part. R2 is fine, and while I do wonder how it could have been different and potentially improved, the Hob death scene isn't really one that factors in all that much. It works fine as-is with Weller's Robo saying little and conveying the bit of emotion just in the presence, as he typically does and as we typically enjoy. As for Hob, I think perhaps other scenes would be better in regards to shedding more light on his character rather than squeezing it into that moment. Bah, maybe I'll bloviate a bit more about this later.
_________________
I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!

[Joined]

Heh, and to think how R2 is already considered cold and nasty as it is.

Anyway, without having much time to go into stuff, I'll just say I'm with JOF and artu for the most part. R2 is fine, and while I do wonder how it could have been different and potentially improved, the Hob death scene isn't really one that factors in all that much. It works fine as-is with Weller's Robo saying little and conveying the bit of emotion just in the presence, as he typically does and as we typically enjoy. As for Hob, I think perhaps other scenes would be better in regards to shedding more light on his character rather than squeezing it into that moment. Bah, maybe I'll bloviate a bit more about this later.
_________________
I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!

[Post Count]

Heh, and to think how R2 is already considered cold and nasty as it is.

Anyway, without having much time to go into stuff, I'll just say I'm with JOF and artu for the most part. R2 is fine, and while I do wonder how it could have been different and potentially improved, the Hob death scene isn't really one that factors in all that much. It works fine as-is with Weller's Robo saying little and conveying the bit of emotion just in the presence, as he typically does and as we typically enjoy. As for Hob, I think perhaps other scenes would be better in regards to shedding more light on his character rather than squeezing it into that moment. Bah, maybe I'll bloviate a bit more about this later.
_________________
I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!

[Comment]

Heh, and to think how R2 is already considered cold and nasty as it is.

Anyway, without having much time to go into stuff, I'll just say I'm with JOF and artu for the most part. R2 is fine, and while I do wonder how it could have been different and potentially improved, the Hob death scene isn't really one that factors in all that much. It works fine as-is with Weller's Robo saying little and conveying the bit of emotion just in the presence, as he typically does and as we typically enjoy. As for Hob, I think perhaps other scenes would be better in regards to shedding more light on his character rather than squeezing it into that moment. Bah, maybe I'll bloviate a bit more about this later.
_________________
I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!

[ChAnOoD]

I never had a problem with Hob or his death. I think the scene with Murphy is fine that way. After all, Robo isn´t a very talkative person. It´s more an action man.

[Joined]

I never had a problem with Hob or his death. I think the scene with Murphy is fine that way. After all, Robo isn´t a very talkative person. It´s more an action man.

[Post Count]

I never had a problem with Hob or his death. I think the scene with Murphy is fine that way. After all, Robo isn´t a very talkative person. It´s more an action man.

[Edd 209]

Robocop tells Hob that he should roasted marshmallows with cub scouts rather than getting into Cain's gang.
_________________
Roobocop // The future of Australian justice...

[Joined]

Robocop tells Hob that he should roasted marshmallows with cub scouts rather than getting into Cain's gang.
_________________
Roobocop // The future of Australian justice...

[Post Count]

Robocop tells Hob that he should roasted marshmallows with cub scouts rather than getting into Cain's gang.
_________________
Roobocop // The future of Australian justice...

[Comment]

Robocop tells Hob that he should roasted marshmallows with cub scouts rather than getting into Cain's gang.
_________________
Roobocop // The future of Australian justice...

[RoboJOF]

Hob's character could have been a lot more interesting if he was a conflicted villain. Making him evil until he was dying just makes him a punk.
Maybe if he showed some remorse when Robocop was trying to do the right thing, I would have liked him more.

On another note, Robocop 2 should have continued the story of Robocop dealing with his cybernetic state. I think that Robocop 2 would have been better if Robocop went through the movie enraged because his identity as Alex Murphy is being denied him. It would have been appropriate since OCP was screwing with his brain, Cain's Gang trashed his body. If Robocop came back with a vengeance, it would have been simple justice.

[Joined]

Hob's character could have been a lot more interesting if he was a conflicted villain. Making him evil until he was dying just makes him a punk.
Maybe if he showed some remorse when Robocop was trying to do the right thing, I would have liked him more.

On another note, Robocop 2 should have continued the story of Robocop dealing with his cybernetic state. I think that Robocop 2 would have been better if Robocop went through the movie enraged because his identity as Alex Murphy is being denied him. It would have been appropriate since OCP was screwing with his brain, Cain's Gang trashed his body. If Robocop came back with a vengeance, it would have been simple justice.

[Post Count]

Hob's character could have been a lot more interesting if he was a conflicted villain. Making him evil until he was dying just makes him a punk.
Maybe if he showed some remorse when Robocop was trying to do the right thing, I would have liked him more.

On another note, Robocop 2 should have continued the story of Robocop dealing with his cybernetic state. I think that Robocop 2 would have been better if Robocop went through the movie enraged because his identity as Alex Murphy is being denied him. It would have been appropriate since OCP was screwing with his brain, Cain's Gang trashed his body. If Robocop came back with a vengeance, it would have been simple justice.

[Comment]

Hob's character could have been a lot more interesting if he was a conflicted villain. Making him evil until he was dying just makes him a punk.
Maybe if he showed some remorse when Robocop was trying to do the right thing, I would have liked him more.

On another note, Robocop 2 should have continued the story of Robocop dealing with his cybernetic state. I think that Robocop 2 would have been better if Robocop went through the movie enraged because his identity as Alex Murphy is being denied him. It would have been appropriate since OCP was screwing with his brain, Cain's Gang trashed his body. If Robocop came back with a vengeance, it would have been simple justice.

[Maxlee]

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[Edd 209]

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