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ireactions
O-L1*
 
Joined: 26 Apr 2015
Post Count: 51
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  Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 9:55 pm |
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| Stan The Man : | | RoboWags : | I think Frank Miller had an idea which Irvin Kershner and Walon Greene perverted. I don't think his full vision for RoboCop would have translated well to the screen, however. That being said, R2 is a good movie and had it been directed by Verhoeven it would've been a masterpiece of a sequel.
I for one am looking forward to a new movie. I think having Weller back will sway the purists but I do agree with Archive that the movie will likely suffer the same "dark fate" as Terminator  . Movies these days are all about the special effects and the pacing. R1 wouldn't hold up by today's box office standards and the younger audience is so used to the CGI effects and over-simplified plots that they wouldn't appreciate the dark humor and satire. I hope Blomkamp is sincere in his pledge to bring back the old Robo. If Weller's participation helps achieve that goal, I'm all for it. |
Word to all of this for me. |
I'm a bit confused about why DARK FATE is getting a bad response when... I mean, it's just the trailer, right?
I find ROBOCOP to be a savage but ultimately hopeful and uplifting experience whereas ROBOCOP 2 is so unpleasant that I have no desire to ever go near it again, but I'm glad RoboWags finds its a good movie because I'd never want anybody to have a bad time.
One thing that confuses me a bit... as lovely as Mr. Blomkamp is, if the intent is to do a Paul Verhoeven pastiche and follow his style -- much in the same way JJ Abrams mimicked Steven Spielberg in SUPER 8 and 1977 George Lucas in THE FORCE AWAKENS -- then how about just hiring Paul Verhoeven?
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Archive
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Joined: 17 Nov 2001
Post Count: 6538
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 6:44 am |
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| ireactions : | I'm a bit confused about why DARK FATE is getting a bad response when... I mean, it's just the trailer, right?
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The bad response is mostly towards a bad trailer. The actual movie might be good but first impressions are definitely not good. It is eerily similar to the other recent Terminator movies and even has a mind numbing fast and furious type plane scene.
| ireactions : | One thing that confuses me a bit... as lovely as Mr. Blomkamp is, if the intent is to do a Paul Verhoeven pastiche and follow his style -- much in the same way JJ Abrams mimicked Steven Spielberg in SUPER 8 and 1977 George Lucas in THE FORCE AWAKENS -- then how about just hiring Paul Verhoeven?
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I think in our minds we would all like Verhoeven to return and make another masterpiece, but then you think of other legendary directors that also returned to their original movie such as Lucas, Spielberg and Ridley Scott and then you realize it might not be a good idea after all. As years gone by they forgot themselves what made the magic happen and i'm not saying that would happen with Verhoeven, but the movie was made during a specific time in his life and it might not be possible to go back there.
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 8:24 am |
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| Archive : | | I think in our minds we would all like Verhoeven to return and make another masterpiece, but then you think of other legendary directors that also returned to their original movie such as Lucas, Spielberg and Ridley Scott and then you realize it might not be a good idea after all. As years gone by they forgot themselves what made the magic happen and i'm not saying that would happen with Verhoeven, but the movie was made during a specific time in his life and it might not be possible to go back there. |
I think Verhoeven wonīt return because the "Showgirls" case (funny that it became a cult movie after these years), so Hollywood isnīt interested in "old" directors. I think he could do an interesting film if the script is right. His latest movies are quite good (I enjoyed too much his "Black Book", and "Elle" wasnīt bad).
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Slash Man
O-L2
Joined: 04 Apr 2015
Post Count: 78
Comment: Stay out of trouble.
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 4:10 pm |
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Usually the older directors are opposed to doing a retread on their older work and try to experiment with new ideas. Hence why George Lucas took the prequels in such a different direction while J.J. Abrams produced a relatively tame remake.
Verhoeven has no allegiance to the RoboCop franchise as a whole (as opposed to Lucas with Star Wars). He simply saw the strength of the script and worked with that. While he's a writer himself, you need something he can salvage to begin with. Irvin Kershner couldn't take many liberties with RoboCop 2 because the script was always changing. As he recounts his experiences, I think we didn't get to see his full potential as a director due to the troubled production.
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RoboPimp
PIMPY SUPREME
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Post Count: 3124
Comment: "You dead wrong if ya think that pimpin' gon' die" - Snoop Dogg, P.I.M.P. (Remix)
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 10:06 pm |
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| Slash Man : | | Irvin Kershner couldn't take many liberties with RoboCop 2 because the script was always changing. |
And who do you think was the one demanding the script be changed? It seems Kershner took about as many liberties as possible with Robocop, cutting down Lewis' parts as much as possible because he hated Nancy Allen, and one story I recall reading here had him throwing out pages of the script every morning, constantly demanding changes. It will be interesting to see how the Robodoc tackles this subject, as many people see Kershner as more of the villain in the making of Robocop 2 than the hero. At the very least, he is the main reason the script is so dramatically different than Miller's original vision.
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OCP-001
O-L5
Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Post Count: 133
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:22 am |
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| RoboPimp : | | Slash Man : | | Irvin Kershner couldn't take many liberties with RoboCop 2 because the script was always changing. |
And who do you think was the one demanding the script be changed? It seems Kershner took about as many liberties as possible with Robocop, cutting down Lewis' parts as much as possible because he hated Nancy Allen, and one story I recall reading here had him throwing out pages of the script every morning, constantly demanding changes. It will be interesting to see how the Robodoc tackles this subject, as many people see Kershner as more of the villain in the making of Robocop 2 than the hero. At the very least, he is the main reason the script is so dramatically different than Miller's original vision. |
 very interesting, I never knew any of that. I did some googling about it and apparently Nancy had this to say about Kershner: "Working with Kershner was the worst experience of my life. He took what was a good script and massacred it. He treated me disgracefully, and I think he ruined the movie and was borderline abusive to me"
source: https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/exclusive-robocops-nancy-allen-originals-epic-cast-chemistry-new-reboot-and-verhoeven-vs
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Slash Man
O-L2
Joined: 04 Apr 2015
Post Count: 78
Comment: Stay out of trouble.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:07 am |
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| RoboPimp : | | And who do you think was the one demanding the script be changed? It seems Kershner took about as many liberties as possible with Robocop, cutting down Lewis' parts as much as possible because he hated Nancy Allen, and one story I recall reading here had him throwing out pages of the script every morning, constantly demanding changes. It will be interesting to see how the Robodoc tackles this subject, as many people see Kershner as more of the villain in the making of Robocop 2 than the hero. At the very least, he is the main reason the script is so dramatically different than Miller's original vision. |
I forget who was quoted as saying Miller's script was "unfilmable", but I believed that for a number of years until I read the comic. In reality, it just came down to personal taste and preference. So I am a little conflicted in that I believe Kershner made a slightly better movie than he was handed, but at the cost of the behind the scenes madness.
Although snubbing Nancy Allen and intentionally not bringing back Basil Poledouris suggests that Kershner didn't understand the elements that people liked about the original.
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Spectrum Scarlet
Sgt-L1*
SIMPY 4 PIMPY
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Post Count: 154
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:56 pm |
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| Slash Man : | I forget who was quoted as saying Miller's script was "unfilmable", but I believed that for a number of years until I read the comic. In reality, it just came down to personal taste and preference. So I am a little conflicted in that I believe Kershner made a slightly better movie than he was handed, but at the cost of the behind the scenes madness.
Although snubbing Nancy Allen and intentionally not bringing back Basil Poledouris suggests that Kershner didn't understand the elements that people liked about the original. |
Think it was Orion who deemed that - "2" had nearly triple the final budget of "1". If they'd wanted to, they could've done the infamous helicopter sequence, for example. It's not as if they put much into the pyrotechnics, bar a few car blasts.
Nancy, up until now, is the only one whose expressed disdain towards "RoboCop 2". If Kershner really treated her unfairly, that memory was going to seep into her opinion of the finished product. She'll have criticized everything he did on it and compared him to Verhoeven, Spielberg and co.
By that time, she'd worked with 5 of the best directors in Hollywood. Those two, Robert Zemeckis, Abel Ferrara and Brian de Palma. I think because of that, she's become somewhat aloof towards the picture, but if she'd done a better job, they wouldn't have been any conflict between her and Kersh. She could have proved him wrong that the part didn't need re-casting.
She wasn't entirely convincing in the role, either. I've said this before she was quite reserved on-camera. Too often, she was awkward and wooden in her delivery/movement. There was so much more she could've done with it and ultimately, she wasn't the original choice. Stephanie Zimbalist was and it's evident why. Her exceptional work and range on "Remington Steele" being proof of that.
Kershner would have known this. He was an educated man by the industry's standards. As viewers, we develop a meter for quality of acting. Allen was great in other parts, but not particularly Lewis. She didn't settle into the character until "RoboCop 3" (a truth she admitted at the time). She preferred feminine, glamorous parts to play and Anne was not one of them.
Of course, this is purely my opinion. Don't mean to imply I speak for any of you.
As for Basil, do we know for certain he wasn't asked back? If anyone's to blame for that, it's Jon Davison. The studio could've also insisted he be hired again.
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Stan The Man
Bah Concepts Division
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 7020
Comment: I'm the guy in Old Archive.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:09 pm |
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| Spectrum Scarlet : | | Nancy, up until now, is the only one whose expressed disdain towards "RoboCop 2". |
Jon Davison, Frank Miller, and Peter Weller all made remarks that while not showing true 'disdain' at least certainly weren't exactly positive about the production. Reading between the lines it's pretty clear almost everyone had, if not a rough time then hardly a pleasant time doing the film. There was conflict and heavy tension by very nature of the production itself. Of course not all of that can be laid at Kersh's feet - after all he was brought in at literally the last minute by an already moving mule being mostly sticked by the studio. Still tho, Kersh seemingly didn't do much if anything to alleviate any of that.
That said, I do think Allen is something of a diva so I think it's a 'bit of both' deal in regards to her treatment on R2. Yes, Kersh and the studio cut a lot of scenes that involved her (which I feel made the final film suffer) and indeed probably didn't treat her too well, but again that by most accounts seems to have been more unilateral from Kersh's end there and there's accounts of Nancy being problematic in R3 - an entirely different environment - so measure all that how you will.
| Quote: | | As for Basil, do we know for certain he wasn't asked back? If anyone's to blame for that, it's Jon Davison. The studio could've also insisted he be hired again. |
I don't think he was either flatly rejected nor explicitly asked, mainly because by the time R2 got going I believe Basil was scoring another movie. If so, well a scheduling conflict would make all of it moot.
That said, I'd rather not yabber about R2 anymore since that ain't what the topic's about.
_________________
I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!
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Slash Man
O-L2
Joined: 04 Apr 2015
Post Count: 78
Comment: Stay out of trouble.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:34 pm |
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To bring this topic back around, the lessons learned from RoboCop 2 are pretty clear. Though since RoboCop Returns isn't in any hurry to capitalize on the first film, the whole rushed production doesn't seem like it's going to be an issue. The only potential source of trouble is the script being re-written from the original RoboCop creators. While it did take a great director like Verhoeven to bring the original to its full potential, these guys still know what they're doing.
It won't be hard to find a talented, willing director this time around. RoboCop is now a well-established pop culture icon. Though like I was saying earlier, the challenge is to find someone that will actually add something new and worthy to the series instead of a safe retreat and a guaranteed moneygrab.
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RoboJOF
Sgt-L4
Joined: 17 May 2015
Post Count: 306
Comment: Bitches, leave!
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| Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:01 pm |
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I read on IMDB.com that the story for this Robocop Returns film was a sequel idea put together by Ed Neuemier and Michael Miner around the time of the first movie's release. The idea that creative material like that has been sitting around for over 30 years is intriguing. Since then there have been many people contribute to the Robocop story, taking it in different directions. It might be refreshing to see what the movie makers were planning back then before it was a recognizeable franchise.
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Archive
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Joined: 17 Nov 2001
Post Count: 6538
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:42 am |
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| RoboJOF : | | I read on IMDB.com that the story for this Robocop Returns film was a sequel idea put together by Ed Neuemier and Michael Miner around the time of the first movie's release. |
Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Blomkamp is making his own script with the help of Tim Miller (Terminator: Dark Fate)
They went from it taking place 25-30 years later to taking place directly after the first movie.
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HOB888
O-L5
Joined: 17 May 2012
Post Count: 141
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:48 am |
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Some troll had fun on Imdb
"Storyline
Robocop must defeat Clarence Bodiker who gets resurrected into a machine with one mission..to destroy all of Detroit. With the help of Emil and Louis Robocop must go to extreme lengths to ensure the survival of his loved ones and defeat his greatest foe yet."
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http://robocop2directive5.blogspot.fr/
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Archive
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Joined: 17 Nov 2001
Post Count: 6538
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:27 pm |
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Woah.
I must say for a joke plot it is pretty lame. Clearly done by a Terminator fan. 
I marked it for deletion to IMDB.
| Plot Summary : | | Robocop must defeat Clarence Bodiker who gets resurrected into a machine with one mission..to destroy all of Detroit. With the help of Emil and Louis Robocop must go to extreme lengths to ensure the survival of his loved ones and defeat his greatest foe yet. |
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Peter Weller talk RoboCop Returns
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