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Judge Black
R-L4
 
Joined: 04 Jul 2015
Post Count: 35
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  Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:29 am |
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| ChAnOoD : | | RoboCop is a different character to work with: after he says "Murphy" at the end of the first film his story is done. |
Not entirely; Murphy accepts his humanity and his identity at the end but that comes with consequences: What of his family? What about ageing/obsolescence? What about death? What about legacy? Those questions have not been adequately explored in any sequels and I think a final chapter, one last gun-fight, could work.
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RoboPimp
PIMPY SUPREME
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Post Count: 3124
Comment: "You dead wrong if ya think that pimpin' gon' die" - Snoop Dogg, P.I.M.P. (Remix)
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:44 am |
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| ChAnOoD : | | Again, RoboCop is a different character to work with: after he says "Murphy" at the end of the first film his story is done. |
No, his story has just begun!
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:45 am |
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| RoboPimp : | | ChAnOoD : | | Again, RoboCop is a different character to work with: after he says "Murphy" at the end of the first film his story is done. |
No, his story has just begun! |
| Judge Black : | | ChAnOoD : | | RoboCop is a different character to work with: after he says "Murphy" at the end of the first film his story is done. |
Not entirely; Murphy accepts his humanity and his identity at the end but that comes with consequences: What of his family? What about ageing/obsolescence? What about death? What about legacy? Those questions have not been adequately explored in any sequels and I think a final chapter, one last gun-fight, could work. |
Ok, I could buy that. But the sequels scrapped his "begining" to do more of the same. That´s my point: even enjoying some of the productions made after the first film I found most of them "by the book" and predecible. Corporate Wars was just a big departure from the first one: If my memory doesn´t trick me, Lewis is gone (sorry for the people behind the petition), Reed and the supporting characters are gone too; OCP as well. I believe making something "radical" would be better for the character, as we already had more of the same on the previous one.
As for the family theme, I think RoboCop 1 (and 2) handled pretty well. Robo won´t "get the girl" at the end. Murphy´s legally dead, and his family are "dead" as well. He´s a cyborg, can´t have a wife anymore. Making a family plot would end as the soap-opera "RebootCop" where Murphy goes to have dinner with the family (!) and, at the end of the film, he becomes RoboFamilyManCop, walking happily with them. I don´t think there´s no need to get the character attached to his family; he misses them deeply, but he can´t be a man again. He let them go, which is a smart move on his part, and give us drama without putting that conflict on the obvious way (I´m looking at you, Padilha!)
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Judge Black
R-L4
Joined: 04 Jul 2015
Post Count: 35
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:36 am |
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| ChAnOoD : |
As for the family theme, I think RoboCop 1 (and 2) handled pretty well. Robo won´t "get the girl" at the end. Murphy´s legally dead, and his family are "dead" as well. He´s a cyborg, can´t have a wife anymore. Making a family plot would end as the soap-opera "RebootCop" where Murphy goes to have dinner with the family (!) and, at the end of the film, he becomes RoboFamilyManCop, walking happily with them. I don´t think there´s no need to get the character attached to his family; he misses them deeply, but he can´t be a man again. He let them go, which is a smart move on his part, and give us drama without putting that conflict on the obvious way (I´m looking at you, Padilha!) |
That's kind of incongruent with the character who declares himself 'Murphy' at the end of the film.
RoboCop 2 kind of reset the character's evolution (or just left it open-ended) because it wasn't convenient to Orion's philosophy of just making another 'RoboCop', but a family sub-story doesn't need to be a soap opera, no more than it is in Blade Runner 2049. The now self-aware character of Murphy at the end of RoboCop would have some lingering feelings of needing to protect the family he once knew rather than completely dismissing them forever.
With the '25 years later' premise of The Corporate Wars , it could tell a story of estrangement even from just his now adult son (they don't need to play catch in the yard for this to be compelling) or that his family are long dead (killed while he was stuck in a box and couldn't help them) and he's dealing with a residual memory of guilt and lost time he had no control over – if the original sequel had been made in the 1980s this could've played-out against clips of a cheesy daytime-soap on TV.
It doesn't need to be a huge thing but they're significant elements if, as in the first film, RoboCop is to be as relatable and progresses – this is one of the reasons why the character and story in the first film work so well. They tried to replace it with the idea of the female AI in The Corporate Wars that ended up in the series pilot but it just comes off as cheesy and daft in both the original script and the show – unless some genius could make it work.
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:29 pm |
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| Judge Black : | | The now self-aware character of Murphy at the end of RoboCop would have some lingering feelings of needing to protect the family he once knew rather than completely dismissing them forever. |
That happens a lot in The Series, and gets tiring to me just having his son or wife getting in trouble over and over. Even in The Series he tries to distance from them, making them believe hes just a battery opperated cop. I found more interesting (and touching) the episode dedicated to his relationship with his dad.
But I still think the way the original handled everything is perfect: instead of getting a cliche with his family in danger, having long, tired and pointless scenes (I´m looking at you again, Padilha) about his family, you see a cute goodbye as a memory when he´s dying, and then a few flashbacks when he returns to his home. They avoided having Murphy as a man for 30, 40 minutes to show these scenes, or getting over-dramatic with this theme. And still you feel for him, even if he only can "feel them".
I like the approach in PD where the son ends being a part of the plot, but I wouldn´t be so happy if a future movie would tall the same thing again. I´d like to move on and trying to make something different with the same style. The "happy words" from Blomkamp about his reboot being "a sequel which takes place after he says 'Murphy'" meant to me "I´m going to do another take on RoboCop 2". And I just watched that film 
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Judge Black
R-L4
Joined: 04 Jul 2015
Post Count: 35
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:00 pm |
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| ChAnOoD : |
That happens a lot in The Series, and gets tiring to me just having his son or wife getting in trouble over and over. Even in The Series he tries to distance from them, making them believe hes just a battery opperated cop. I found more interesting (and touching) the episode dedicated to his relationship with his dad. |
The TV series is a soap opera/cop show, though, so the matter of family was treated according to the tropes of the episodic format. The idea of them being dead or old when he's taken out of decades of storage is another matter entirely and raises alternate questions in the mind of what is essentially a product that has human memories and feels it's a man, is still in a transitory state of being, but no longer new. It's also a way of meaningfully marking time passing for the character who is being treated as a timeless utility.
| ChAnOoD : | | But I still think the way the original handled everything is perfect: instead of getting a cliche with his family in danger, having long, tired and pointless scenes (I´m looking at you again, Padilha) about his family, you see a cute goodbye as a memory when he´s dying, and then a few flashbacks when he returns to his home. They avoided having Murphy as a man for 30, 40 minutes to show these scenes, or getting over-dramatic with this theme. And still you feel for him, even if he only can "feel them". |
Again they don't need to be part of the plot, or take up huge amounts of screen-time, but they are significant elements of the story of the character, and are one of the reasons why the first film works and why it's perfect. The fact that it was badly executed in the remake, or even in the sequels, is no excuse or impediment to handling the subject better while also having it be meaningful to an older version of the character in his last days. The film I suggest it could be has not been done before.
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TODD-209
Sgt-L1
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Post Count: 192
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:35 pm |
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I can't say I'm shocked by this development, but I am disappointed...I thoroughly enjoyed District 9 and even Elysium to a certain extent...Blomkamp seemed like such a natural fit for the the world of RoboCop, the look and feel of that universe, but who knows...maybe at the end of the day, his sensibilities might have strayed from what we know and love about the original. When all is said and done, though, I hope this doesn't derail the project completely...just let it be a little hiccup or speedup along the way to getting this movie made...
As for any possible sequels exploring Murphy's family, I never felt like that was the way to go...to me it takes away from the sense of loss and confusion that the character of Murphy/RoboCop lives with. I feel as if the first film addressed it perfectly and appropriately...it was just enough to provide a glimpse of the inner turmoil he felt as he was grappling with his new reality. To me, to bring back his family in whatever capacity and make them current and relevant to his circumstances just muddles the story and drama. I thought it worked well in the reboot, but I can't put my finger exactly on why...maybe because it has proven to be a stand-alone movie, and in that universe it was handled more-or-less like a real situation I guess, how a family would come to terms with a loved-one being rebuilt as a cyborg, but I digress...
I think I even like the way it was handled in the second film, how there were creepy connotations of RoboCop stalking his wife from afar, and how there were legal ramifications from that, and the whole notion that he pretended to go full-on mindless cyborg just to convince his wife to stay away and forget about him...that was probably my very favorite sequence in that movie, it was done so well...
Anyway, I'm still excited that the studio is showing some interest in reviving RoboCop as a viable franchise again...I think the character is as popular as ever, with nostalgia about retro properties like this at a fever-pitch. Well just have to stay positive and have faith that this all means there's still interest in doing something with the property, it just might take a little longer to get there. But hey, fans of RoboCop are good at being patient, right? (lol)
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Spectrum Scarlet
Sgt-L1*
SIMPY 4 PIMPY
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Post Count: 154
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| Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:28 am |
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| RoboPimp : | | And I don't want to hear any bullshit about "studio interference". This is a studio film, end of story. If these guys want to do art films that are totally original, keep doing it. I wish them luck, but if you're coming onto an established franchise with a bigger budget for effects and promotion, then you've got to expect some freedom will be sacrificed. And if this is really the dream project, who cares? If I was lucky enough to direct the new RoboCop movie or even write a 4 page comic book story, I would do whatever it took to finish it. If they said RoboCop has to do a ballet dance in a tutu I would do my best to make it fit within the world of RoboCop in a satisfying way. And then if the studio told me to do it another way I would listen. Because to work on an official RoboCop project is my dream. But not Blomkamp's, apparently. |
Pimp, I love reading your posts when we have these discussions. I've followed the board for a few years now and have always enjoyed your thoughts. You've made me think about how the character could be written in different, original ways, with specific reference to the Marvel comics. But I've gotta tell you; making him do a ballet-dance with a tutu? That's just bullshit and you know it.
There's no way you, I or anyone else here could make that work - or would WANT to make that work. They've embarrassed Robo enough already, dressing him up as Colonel Sanders, the reboot and the mini-series. But you'd be willing to go further than that? Lol. Come on.
It would be like having him drive a pink Cadillac to pursue a mercenary in "RoboCop 3", which some clueless executive at Orion probably came up with, thinking it would be hilarious and entice ticket-patrons to flock to the cinema to watch the movie! They probably forced that upon Dekker (amongst other things, more likely).
As much as I don't like Blomkamp for dropping the project like a stone and I agree he should've countered his words with a greater sense of caution, a director worth his salt who doesn't want to sacrifice *too* much is better off walking away and doing a different film. Better off than being attached to a movie forever that he'll regret for the rest of his career and natural life. If he was really coming up with something that was "what was Verheoven would've done if he'd done RoboCop 2", there's a chance MGM said no, because what Paul did do in various ways throughout the first film *was* art.
The way movies are made today, and to a great extent, television, is very much a lost art (no pun intended). The industry/public is truly worse off; especially when it comes to action/science-fiction pictures. If "RoboCop '87" were to be made today, I think we all know that it wouldn't have the same effect, heart and/or gravitas that was allowed back then; I just wouldn't have the same power or thump to it, nor any kind of a soul which endears it to many, beyond the genre.
| RoboPimp : | | ...we aren't gonna keep waiting around patiently. We've been burned like that too many times, fromAronofsky on the reboot to RoboCop vs Predator, and to a lesser degree the RoboDoc. |
Those guys with the Doc have done more for the character than any of the other people you and others have mentioned here. I'm sure they're continuing to do so (even if they're getting ahead of themselves with other projects) - but I'd be surprised if Volume 1 isn't out this year. Even if it isn't, that's fine. It'll be out next year. Well before any feature film is released - and probably before one prints a frame of film in-the-can.
Documentaries are the worst kind of production to tackle. It's never ending and there's always something to do (if you've been ambitious with it that is, and produced it without any major capital/investment from a studio).
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Spectrum Scarlet
Sgt-L1*
SIMPY 4 PIMPY
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Post Count: 154
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| Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:23 am |
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| Stan The Man : | | ChAnOoD : | On some FB groups I saw an article about Zach Snyder being the ideal director for Returns. If someone is serious about it, I´d prefer to have the character die.   |
Jesus. And to think I saw a 'ideal list' of a few names that would supposedly be good and while strangely he wasn't on that list all but maybe a couple of the options were just as absurd.
Truth be told, there's only a couple other notable names that I'd even consider giving a shot to, and those choices are just as unlikely as Verhoeven himself, who while I still feel understands it all better than anyone I too fear is now too old to do it now. |
So, who are those other notable names? Established movie directors or independent 'artists'? There's a number of talented directors out there who could handle a "RoboCop" feature, most of them having worked exclusively in television for several years. A handful of those worked on "Game of Thrones" during that show's 7-year run and I'm sure that MGM are they're still looking to do this, they'll have been looking at those and it's only a matter of time before they announce one as a replacement.
They're 'hot' properties right now, given the phenomenon that series has become. Also, there's the people who've been associated with a hit cable show on HBO, FX and Showtime, and perhaps even those who gained a name/reputation on one of those quirky European, critically-acclaimed crime dramas we heard so much at one time a few years ago - a new, younger Paul Verhoeven.
For my money, I wouldn't mind Martin Campbell or Philip Noyce giving it a shot; they've proven they can balance extensive action with compelling story. Performances with a great sense of humanity and an even, consistent tone that doesn't distract from the material. Long as it's not any of the "Fast and Furious" helmers, I wouldn't bother to buy even the download; let alone the BluRay.
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Stan The Man
Bah Concepts Division
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 7020
Comment: I'm the guy in Old Archive.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:12 pm |
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| Spectrum Scarlet : | So, who are those other notable names? Established movie directors or independent 'artists'? There's a number of talented directors out there who could handle a "RoboCop" feature, most of them having worked exclusively in television for several years. A handful of those worked on "Game of Thrones" during that show's 7-year run and I'm sure that MGM are they're still looking to do this, they'll have been looking at those and it's only a matter of time before they announce one as a replacement.
They're 'hot' properties right now, given the phenomenon that series has become. Also, there's the people who've been associated with a hit cable show on HBO, FX and Showtime, and perhaps even those who gained a name/reputation on one of those quirky European, critically-acclaimed crime dramas we heard so much at one time a few years ago - a new, younger Paul Verhoeven.
For my money, I wouldn't mind Martin Campbell or Philip Noyce giving it a shot; they've proven they can balance extensive action with compelling story. Performances with a great sense of humanity and an even, consistent tone that doesn't distract from the material. Long as it's not any of the "Fast and Furious" helmers, I wouldn't bother to buy even the download; let alone the BluRay. |
'Tis true about those on GoT and other big premium shows - indeed most of them have worked on productions for decades, I've seen their name on other big shows and the like. SO they definitely have the chops.
That said, wasn't any of those kind of names you mentioned at all on that list, I assure you. It was one of the news/opinion sites, I don't freaking remember now. But most of it was the speed of Snyder and Michael Bay and all so.. yeah.
_________________
I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:05 pm |
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| Stan The Man : | | But most of it was the speed of Snyder and Michael Bay and all so.. yeah. |
Should we expect The Rock as RoboCop, then?  :roll:
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RoboPimp
PIMPY SUPREME
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Post Count: 3124
Comment: "You dead wrong if ya think that pimpin' gon' die" - Snoop Dogg, P.I.M.P. (Remix)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:25 pm |
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| Spectrum Scarlet : | Pimp, I love reading your posts when we have these discussions. I've followed the board for a few years now and have always enjoyed your thoughts. You've made me think about how the character could be written in different, original ways, with specific reference to the Marvel comics. But I've gotta tell you; making him do a ballet-dance with a tutu? That's just bullshit and you know it.
There's no way you, I or anyone else here could make that work - or would WANT to make that work. They've embarrassed Robo enough already, dressing him up as Colonel Sanders, the reboot and the mini-series. But you'd be willing to go further than that? Lol. Come on.
It would be like having him drive a pink Cadillac to pursue a mercenary in "RoboCop 3", which some clueless executive at Orion probably came up with, thinking it would be hilarious and entice ticket-patrons to flock to the cinema to watch the movie! They probably forced that upon Dekker (amongst other things, more likely). |
That scene is the very scene that inspired my longstanding username here on RoboCop Archive and still ranks among my favorite scenes in RoboCop history. Good thing they forced Dekker to film it, then. I am a huge fan of RoboCop 3 and have most likely seen it the most of any of the RoboCop movies because I watched it wayy more than the other two as a kid. I appreciate your kind words, but do not under estimate my love for RoboCop, the character, not just the 1987 film. And don't underestimate my ability to write RoboCop, I do have a BA in creative writing after all. I could and would write RoboCop in a tutu, perhaps in a tender moment where he is helping a young transgirl accept themself for who they really are, and it would be beautiful and more poignant than any officaly RoboCop story from this decade! The great thing about RoboCop, the character, is that he is essentially a blank slate for any type of story, which is why it is a shame he is so often forced into the same story over and over again, and yet that seems to be what most people want...
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ireactions
O-L1*
Joined: 26 Apr 2015
Post Count: 51
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:52 am |
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I'd be delighted to be proven wrong, but I think it is unlikely there will be any ROBOCOP RETURNS from any director. Neill Blomkamp hasn't made a feature film since 2015 and now has four announced and unmade films to his name. If he really had a horror/thriller whatever he was keen to make, he isn't working on it right now. Judging from the halted progress of the project even before Blomkamp announced he was out, MGM was in no way hurrying to make ROBOCOP RETURNS, so Blomkamp claiming that MGM was rushing strikes me as a pleasant and empty excuse. The studio didn't seem keen to greenlight the film, only to engage in a thrifty developmental stage of reviewing a pre-existing script, commissioning some alternate writing, then letting the director go and the project will now die a quiet death in development hell.
I hope to find myself eating my own words in the coming weeks and months.
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Spectrum Scarlet
Sgt-L1*
SIMPY 4 PIMPY
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Post Count: 154
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:04 am |
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| RoboPimp : | | I appreciate your kind words, but do not under estimate my love for RoboCop, the character, not just the 1987 film. And don't underestimate my ability to write RoboCop, I do have a BA in creative writing after all. I could and would write RoboCop in a tutu, perhaps in a tender moment where he is helping a young transgirl accept themself for who they really are, and it would be beautiful and more poignant than any officaly RoboCop story from this decade! The great thing about RoboCop, the character, is that he is essentially a blank slate for any type of story, which is why it is a shame he is so often forced into the same story over and over again, and yet that seems to be what most people want... |
Pimp, please. Let's not start that kind of passive-aggressive talk. Don't underestimate mine or others' passion for "RoboCop" either. Beyond the original movie and the same goes for writing, too. You don't need a degree to pen a script, be it in film/television or novel/comic form. To say that exchange you describe would be more touching and appealing than any scene from an approved tale of the character over the last 9 years, isn't saying much at all, in all fairness. Considering how little there's been since the start of the 2010's, half of BOOM!'s output was a re-issue and adaptation, while Dynamite never got past their 1st issue.
What kind of plots have you thought up of, that a sub-plot like the transgirl interaction would work?
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Neill Blomkamp leaves RoboCop Returns
