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Sean_001
Vault Dweller
 
Joined: 20 Mar 2003
Post Count: 2192
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  Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:02 pm |
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| RoboLewis : | | Page Fletcher as RoboTot was the problem! Hiring someone who never saw the movies was a bad decision. I would have liked to have seen Richard Eden back in the role because I liked him on the series. |
...So, seriously, I'm glad Richard Eden had the good sense to stay away from this stinker. Page Fletcher was good as Murphy, but not Robo. Terribly miscast actor.
----Sean
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Mindchamber
DC-L4
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Post Count: 2746
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:46 am |
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honestly, if they would've scaled the story down a bit. It could've worked a bit smoother. Keeping it down to a single intriguing villain instead of.. what 3? would've helped a lot.
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Robomania
R-L3
Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Post Count: 29
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:53 pm |
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| Kamen Rider : | | RoboDuck : | I think my main problem was Fletcher.
If someone else was in the suit, say Eden, it might be a bit more watchable... |
I agree. That was the same problem I had with PD. I think they should have tried really hard to get Eden to wear the suit one last time. I recently watched the pilot movie for RoboCop The Series, and thought it wasn't that bad, Eden performed well as RoboCop, yeah, he didn't kill anybody, but that's how TV was at the time, I believe Walker, Texas Ranger was considered the most violent show on TV at the time, I'm sure had RoboCop The Series been made now, it could be as violent as 24.
Also, if they weren't allowed to use sound effects from the movie because of having only the rights to The Series, then they could have at least had used The Series sound effects, at least the sound effects for the movements. |
I was unaware of what rights they had, certainly agreed on the movement sounds though. Couldn't get used to the clanking sound. I also took issue with the movements themselves, not very subtle.
Also agreed Eden wasn't a bad Robocop, just tied in with PG13 restraints, I had no issues with him as the character himself in that setting.
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:34 am |
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| Robomania : | | Couldn't get used to the clanking sound . |
I donīt mind that clanking sound, but I think Cable should have the original RoboFootsteps FX. That way itīd make some kind of sense to have Murphy with rusty sound fx.
Anyway, were the changes done due to rights? While RoboCop in The Series sounded right, I thought they recreated the sounds. I mean, the holster sound is different from the films (sometimes a little bit too much, like the over-the-top one used in a scene from "Prime Suspect"), so I guess the FX in PD were changed on purpose and not because they didnīt have the rights to use the ones from the films.
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Sean_001
Vault Dweller
Joined: 20 Mar 2003
Post Count: 2192
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:11 pm |
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| Mindchamber : | | honestly, if they would've scaled the story down a bit. It could've worked a bit smoother. Keeping it down to a single intriguing villain instead of.. what 3? would've helped a lot. |
I did feeel as if the story was stretched a little bit too far.
I mean the Anne R. Key storyline felt Way too forced (too fan-fictiony IMO), especially tying it into the main RoboCop storyline. I'm cool with Bone Machine. Actually dug that little bit. Shit, I can think of a million different ways to condense this shitshow as a single outing.
...counting villains...
1. Bone Machine
2. Damian Lowe
3. Kaydick/Legion BS
4. Sara Cable (fuckin Bitch)/The Trust (rebellious sect of OCP centered on Mutiny, ineffective plot, dead end)
5. Cable (saw more as a victim than villain, but he fought Robo, so.... Villain)
6. James Murphy & EMP (again, more victim of The Trust)
7. The Fuckin OCP building, fo gawdsakes
8. Jordan Dick (Moooooooooom!)
9. System Support and their questionable ethics
I'll stop there, because this series of "FILMS" had so much happening in it to keep focus. And any "RoboCop" stuff that was any good were the clips they lifted from the series episodes.
Which, I'll stop there and focus on THAT particular issue there....
Whyinthefuck?! Are they trying to tie in this 4-part turd fest to a Nuetered failed TV show that was released during the Parental Control days of TV when Mom seemed to be running the FCC? Look, I have a soft spot for the Series, it was cheese much the same as Batman '66 was Cheese. But this was like trying to tie Tim Burton's Batman to the Campy Batman '66, (we got Batman Forever) and this is our Batman, dammit.
So much of this movie was lifted right from the Series. But the most criminal of which was the "Super-Spin".
The Super-spin. WTF? It's apparent Fletcher "didn't watch the movies", by his own admission, but did he even read the script? Murphy twirls the fucker like a cowboy. Did he do this for an easy paycheck?
Look, I've worked in bad kitchens before. But I still look at the temperature on the grill before I burn the eggs!
So much of PD is an eye-sore, from the reused shots to the psuedo-slow-motion shots that were reused and mirrored to try to building tension in the action. The shitty acting, and the silliness of the stretched out, force-fed sci-fi story that was mashed together with a popular Movie icon.
It's still more enjoyable than that remake.
If an enema from Bugs Bunny is slightly more enjoyable than being anal-raped by Q-bert.
----Sean
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:29 pm |
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| Sean_001 : | | Whyinthefuck?! Are they trying to tie in this 4-part turd fest to a Nuetered failed TV show that was released during the Parental Control days of TV when Mom seemed to be running the FCC? Look, I have a soft spot for the Series, it was cheese much the same as Batman '66 was Cheese. But this was like trying to tie Tim Burton's Batman to the Campy Batman '66, (we got Batman Forever) and this is our Batman, dammit. |
Were they? As far as I noticed, the use of The Series footage was done on odd levels. Thereīs the Dark Justice scene where they borrowed a RoboCruiser shot in the night; an explosion mixed on the Bone Machine fight at the end; a really weird shots of a builiding explosion for Meltdown (it makes little sense to the plot) and... Donīt remember much (you can count some holster footage here and there as well). The rest of the shots were used for MediaNet, specially on the RoboCop Greatestīs Moments montages. So, that doesnīt meant they tried to connect PD with the previous series... they stole clips from The Series because it was cheaper than filming some action scenes 
Iīve been studying PDīs footage for the project Iīm doing and I always found weird the use of The Series footage. Cīmon, why using the RoboCruiser passing from one side to another at night. I meant, a second unit could have done that instead of using stock footage. Yet, they could use some explosions and FX stuff from the 94 series to enhance the action on PD and thereīs little use of that. Or establishing shots (something the miniseries needed) to let us know where we are. Or to make OCP a living building with people instead of some corridors with the same 5, 6 people on it.
| Sean_001 : | | The Super-spin. WTF? It's apparent Fletcher "didn't watch the movies", by his own admission, but did he even read the script? Murphy twirls the fucker like a cowboy. Did he do this for an easy paycheck? |
Weller said spinning the gun is like spinning a baseball bat, and even Eden couldnīt make it (he "spins" it twice and looks like a lazy move instead of the Robospin, thatīs why they used that "Super-spin" on "Provision 22", which it looks like they made it via composition, adding the gun to the pose). I donīt know if Fletcher couldnīt make it or they even didnīt try it in the first place. But yep, they should have keep that as itīs a part of the character.
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Robomania
R-L3
Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Post Count: 29
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| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:52 pm |
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| ChAnOoD : | | Robomania : | | Couldn't get used to the clanking sound . |
I donīt mind that clanking sound, but I think Cable should have the original RoboFootsteps FX. That way itīd make some kind of sense to have Murphy with rusty sound fx.
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That's a thought, I overlooked the emphasis on him being old, I'm sure I remember at one point him being referred to as 'old nuts and bolts' or something. Still like the thud sound better though 
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Sean_001
Vault Dweller
Joined: 20 Mar 2003
Post Count: 2192
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:06 pm |
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| ChAnOoD : | | Sean_001 : | | Whyinthefuck?! Are they trying to tie in this 4-part turd fest to a Nuetered failed TV show that was released during the Parental Control days of TV when Mom seemed to be running the FCC? |
Were they? |
Granted, I don't REALLY believe that was their intent. I meant this purely as a satirical lead-in to me point of them relying to heavily on the series footage.
Honestly, I saw the MediaNet segment as sort of cheeky, and like it actually came in good use there.
But they "stole" the footage, instead of sending that second unit for easily achievable shots. I get that special effects explosives are not cheap. But flat out reusing shots like that is just lazy filmmaking.
Reusing (albeit using their own background) establishing shots of the Police Station and certain Cruiser driving scenes aside, they did capture some REALLY good looking shots. All those unique and awesome shots were tarnished when they reused THOSE shots, then slowed it down, mirrored it, and alter the sound editing a bit. That's just "Padding out the runtime" as some critics would say. And "Padding the runtime" is just cheap and stupid. It reeks of garbage, and lack of substance to the story.
What story there was, was a damn mess. As I said earlier, too much being thrown together.
Like trying to make a big puzzle out of 4 jigsaw puzzles, hammering in pieces to force a fit.
Analogies aside, PD is a horrendous work of art. It's cheese for cheese sake.
And I love to hate this series, almost as much as I hate how much I love it.
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:16 pm |
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| Sean_001 : | | Reusing (albeit using their own background) establishing shots of the Police Station and certain Cruiser driving scenes aside, they did capture some REALLY good looking shots. All those unique and awesome shots were tarnished when they reused THOSE shots. |
I assume PD, as a rushed production, had some troubles while editing. I can picture a "oh, we needed a RoboCruiser shot for this chat between Cable and Robo" more than "weīll use one of these shots from The Series". I want to believe they forgot to shot stuff due to time/budget than taking these kind of shots from the previous series. Thatīs why I said earlier: the shots from The Series are used on a very odd way. As we talked in previous posts, somebody could take a camera and filming the RoboCop car going from left to right. Iīll like to think about poor planification instead of "weīll fill that with footage from the 90īs". *
| Sean_001 : | | I get that special effects explosives are not cheap. But flat out reusing shots like that is just lazy filmmaking. |
I think the problem here are us. I wonder if a non RoboExpert would notice the differences or if that shot of an explosion is from the miniseries or borrowed. For the project Iīm trying to do Iīm stealing all The Series stuff I could to put in the PD remix Iīm cooking. Just to try to enhance the enviroments. Everything seems so... small on PD due to the lack of bigger shots.
And The Series didnīt have too much people either (in most of the episodes when there are people making a protest or a press conference there arenīt too many people. Yet they managed to make it credible between close ups and wide shots. Most of PD was filmed waist up or on a face close-up). They could put ten persons walking on the OCP building and, while there isnīt too crowded, it works since the building looked big. When you compare it to the elevator corridors on the miniseries, it looked like a small, empty room instead of a Corporation Building.
* While using footage from the 94 Series on the PD scenes I found it extremely difficult to make it work. Blurry and grainy. Iīm sure theyīd have access to a better quality footage from the shot, but yet at some points you can see the coloring doesnīt match the 1999īs footage. That and some grainy stuff here and there.
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ireactions
O-L1*
Joined: 26 Apr 2015
Post Count: 51
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:49 pm |
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I believe the use of SERIES footage was simply due to time and budget. It's largely in the Medianet sequences, but also in DARK JUSTICE for a shot of RoboCop's foot hitting the ground and then RoboCop driving. In MELTDOWN, the shot of Da Bomz headquarters exploding and another explosion with the RoboHunters is from THE SERIES. The gun twirl in CRASH AND BURN is also from THE SERIES.
The gun spinning is something that the PRIME DIRECTIVES team liked as a plot element in the first ROBOCOP as a reference to Murphy's returning memories, but, rightly or wrongly, they didn't want to use it unless there was a specific plot purpose for it.
The use of THE SERIES footage is largely a joke on editing and how news media can spin stories. Generic clips of Richard Eden's RoboCop are made to look heroic in DARK JUSTICE but menacingly malicious in MELTDOWN. But I do wish there hadn't been any reused footage outside of that.
When I first watched PRIME DIRECTIVES at age 15, I hadn't seen much of THE SERIES, but even then, I could tell what was from THE SERIES. I felt the footage from THE SERIES had a much lower contrast level and looks brighter than PRIME DIRECTIVES and a different saturation level and grain pattern. But -- it might be due to a fan, in 2000, having edited together a compilation/trailer of THE SERIES' best visual moments: explosions, RoboCop entrances, driving -- and all the high points of this compilation were also to be found in PRIME DIRECTIVES.
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:44 am |
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| ireactions : | | The use of THE SERIES footage is largely a joke on editing and how news media can spin stories. Generic clips of Richard Eden's RoboCop are made to look heroic in DARK JUSTICE but menacingly malicious in MELTDOWN. But I do wish there hadn't been any reused footage outside of that. |
I think the MediaNet were handled fine. Fun stuff on it, plus The Series footage was used nicely. And even makes sense, when they do that compilation videos of Robo over the years. But I always find lame how they release the warehouse explosion in Dark Justice and then re-used the same exact shots for the Alamo bit.
| ireactions : | | The gun spinning is something that the PRIME DIRECTIVES team liked as a plot element in the first ROBOCOP as a reference to Murphy's returning memories, but, rightly or wrongly, they didn't want to use it unless there was a specific plot purpose for it. |
While the writers said that in the past, I think previous scripts included some "Murphy twirls his gun" when a fight scene is done. Thinking way too much, I see Murphyīs twirl like a movement he does without ever thinking on it. And it was done in Robo 1 & 2, so itīs a characteristic of the character. I donīt recall a twirl in 3, but he uses the Gunarm more than the Auto-9. Anyway, if Robo doesnīt twirl the gun I think itīs because the actor canīt move that big-ass gun more than a plot device
Itīd be interesting to take a look to the script to see if everything from the finished product is there or if they changed stuff when theyīre filming.
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ireactions
O-L1*
Joined: 26 Apr 2015
Post Count: 51
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:49 pm |
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I can't remember if the gun twirl was in the scripts or not. But when filming, the creators felt that the gun twirl was not a stylistic flourish to be used as one of RoboCop's mannerisms, but something very specific to Murphy and his relationship with his son, and the team ultimately decided that their story of Murphy and his son was not enriched by the gun twirl.
To me... I can sort of see that argument, and while I really enjoy PRIME DIRECTIVES, I concede that there are certain identifiers for fans of RoboCop that need to be present for RoboCop to feel like RoboCop. The fans need RoboCop to be physically imposing. To move with confidence, forcefulness, and mechanistic cool. To be performed by a gifted mime artist (or an actor who has been coached by a gifted mime artist). To win two thirds of his fights as opposed to crawling away from all of them. And to twirl his gun.
I have something similar with the TV show ELEMENTARY, a modern version of Sherlock Holmes (except that unlike most RoboCop fans who hate PRIME DIRECTIVES, I'm a Holmes fan who loves ELEMENTARY). ELEMENTARY presents a version of Sherlock Holmes who rarely if ever does the 'Sherlock Scan' where Holmes looks at a person's demeanor, clothing, face, hands, posture and immediately discerns their life's story, profession, relationships and habits from the small details of their appearance. ELEMENTARY's version of Sherlock Holmes barely ever does this (because TV is a factory and writing these deductions is extremely difficult and takes weeks that TV writers don't have). Because of this, the Sherlock Holmes of ELEMENTARY doesn't feel like Sherlock Holmes to me no matter how much I enjoy the show.
I really like PRIME DIRECTIVES as an alternate vision of RoboCop. The 2000 cable TV version. But yes. Anyone making a RoboCop series should present RoboCop with RoboCop's Robocopisms.
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:12 pm |
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| ireactions : | | I really like PRIME DIRECTIVES as an alternate vision of RoboCop. The 2000 cable TV version. But yes. Anyone making a RoboCop series should present RoboCop with RoboCop's Robocopisms. |
Iīm in the same boat. I really dig it. I grew up watching blockbusters and low budget movies, so the lack of money donīt scare me. Well, it scares me in real life because money moves everything, but not on movies budgets. But I can see why people donīt like it.
| ireactions : | | The fans need RoboCop to be physically imposing. |
Yes. I wonīt take crap on Fletcher, because even haters liked him as Murphy, but they could trick his stature shoting him on lower angles (or even putting a box or similar to make him bigger when with other actors). We talked about that here a bunch of times.
| ireactions : | | To move with confidence, forcefulness, and mechanistic cool. |
I understand some people not liking the movements here. I think if Wint would move like the original RoboCop some people would pass the lack of robo-fidelity on Fletcherīs part as a "creative choice" to make the character older. Same with the FX footsteps.
| ireactions : | | To win two thirds of his fights as opposed to crawling away from all of them. And to twirl his gun. |
Thatīs the part that saddess me. As a guy who likes to edit stuff (since I have no friends and the few ones wonīt want to do shorts... Assholes! ) itīs hard to get a heroic moment for RoboCop in the miniseries. And I know drama is needed, and itīs good to have the good guy taking some beating and being in danger instead of winning always... but after Dark Justice Robo loses every fight. Which makes the ending kind of funny, as we previously talked about it on this forum: Crash & Burn has RoboCop with his empty body, malfunctioning and almost dying, then Cable saves the day (the sacrifice move is good, but Murphy doesnīt do much) and goes into Delta City to stop the violence in the streets. Since the character was malfunctioning and he didnīt have too many energy left, he would try to take some regular baddies and fell into the ground. Did he suddenly has his Efficency back at 100%? The realistic approach would have him back into the precint to get some maintenance, like at the end of Dark Justice. Him getting the baddies look better, yes, but makes little sense when you think about it
Trying to do an edit making this RoboCop a triumphant figure is like trying to make some cool action video with the footage of RebootCop with the silver suit: impossible.
| ireactions : | | I really like PRIME DIRECTIVES as an alternate vision of RoboCop. The 2000 cable TV version. But yes. Anyone making a RoboCop series should present RoboCop with RoboCop's Robocopisms. |
Yes. Again, on the same boat. People donīt usually go so passionate about different versions of Batman or his favorite character, and even RoboCop donīt feel the same between movies (even if Weller is playing him). I think of this as an "Elseworlds" kind of story, like the kind of short running comic from a specific artist toying with an established character. Even people here thinks PD would make a cool comic (to the point I asked the writers why they didnīt try to sell the original concept to BOOM! or whoever owns the comic rights right now to be adapted into a graphic novel, since the end result is WAY different than the original concept for the miniseries. But it seems they canīt do much with it, since they were hired scriptwriters).
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RoboPimp
PIMPY SUPREME
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Post Count: 3124
Comment: "You dead wrong if ya think that pimpin' gon' die" - Snoop Dogg, P.I.M.P. (Remix)
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:54 pm |
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| ChAnOoD : | | even haters liked him as Murphy |
I did not like him as Murphy. It probably has more to with the script/directing and just the way he is portrayed in general, but the flashback stuff of him as Murphy is actually the portion of PD I remember least fondly. You can do RoboCop poorly and I will still enjoy it somehow because it is still Robo. But the flashback Murphy stuff was just unbearably generic and boring. And it did not feel like Murhpy to me. Sure, we only got to see him for a few minutes in the movie, giving us little to work off of. But there was one thing that stood out: his smile. Murphy seemed like the guy who grinned in the face of death, and indeed when he was transferred to a dangerous precinct he didn't complain upon arrival, he smiled. I did not see any of that charm in PD, and he came across much more like a typical hardass cop. Sure, that may be an accurate extrapolation of what to expect from a model cop, but it is not compelling to watch for me. Fletcher did not bring anything special to the role of Murhpy, he was just less disappointing compared to his performance as Robo.
| Quote: | | People donīt usually go so passionate about different versions of Batman |
You sure about that? Not to get too offtopic, but I'd dare to say that people are generally more passionate about Batman than RoboCop. There are diehard Nolan apologists who clash with the true Batman fans like myself (just kidding, but not really) and then there are Snyder/Affleck fans and haters with a healthy debate still raging across social media today. And that's just the movies. If you don't think people aren't passionate about Batman like we are about RoboCop, you haven't spent much time hanging out in comic shops in the past few decades. People absolutely debate specific series, costumes, minor variations just like we are talking about PD. I should know, I grew up in a comic shop and have had those debates countless times myself. Even more than we have debated RoboCop, actually, just because Batman is an older and more mainstream character. But that's kind of the point. Obviously we are very passionate about our fandom to still be on this message board debating it. But we are only on this messageboard. There has never been a RoboCon, a fan zine, or entire site for RoboCop fan fiction. We are as passionate about our fandom as anyone, but to say RoboCop fans are special or more passionate than other kinds of fans is just some holier than though bullshit, to be blunt. We are not more passionate than Terminator fans because there are less of us, just cooler.
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RoboCop: PD - What went wrong?
