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RoboCop: PD - What went wrong?
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Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:29 pm Reply with quote

I like PRIME DIRECTIVES. I liked it in 2001. I like it now. That said, I do understand why the majority of the fans here don't and I don't dispute their reasons. We all enjoy things differently, and the things I would want from a ROBOCOP series and the things PRIME DIRECTIVES tried to do and could do are not the things the fans here wanted.

But I don't think that means that the creators are bad people who didn't care about RoboCop or the fans. One of the writers, Joseph O'Brien, is a personal friend of mine. I interacted with Julian Grant once in 2000 and had the opportunity to see him answer a lot of questions as well as some of mine. I met writer Brad Abraham on multiple occasions. These creators all expressed great respect and appreciation for RoboCop, noting that the character was so special in the original film thanks to:
    Peter Weller's performance
    Ed Neumeier and Michael Miner's script
    Paul Verhoeven's direction
    Rob Bottin's design
    Moni Yakim's mime-work training
    Superb production values

The issues fans primarily cite as their distaste for PD include:
    Richard Eden was not rehired despite having proven himself in an otherwise poor TV series;
    Page Fletcher's RoboCop movements do not measure up to the detailed, emotive movements seen in the three films;
    Moni Yakim, the mime-artist who designed the RoboCop movements and directed the actors in the films, was not hired for Prime Directives;
    Richard Eden should have played Alex Murphy;
    The helmetless makeup looks terrible;
    RoboCop spends every fight scene getting beaten up;
    The action sequences feature more flashbang effects and slow-motion than choreographed action;
    The series is set either in the halls of OCP or abandoned warehouse upon abandoned warehouse, making it look cheap;
    The effects are poor;
    The writing is bad.

When watching PD in 2001 -- I think I simply accepted that an eight-million dollar series of four movies shot in three months wasn't going to be STAR WARS. It was going to be a TV show: TV level effects, TV sets, TV makeup, TV props. Also, the series was produced by Fireworks Entertainment: they did low-budget syndicated TV shows like MUTANT X and ANDROMEDA. These were all shows that depended on using sets as much as possible, using slow-motion action to keep costs manageable, using low-budget effects and makeup, and also hiring models rather than actors. PRIME DIRECTIVES is, in the end, a version of RoboCop made for this syndicated sci-fi market of low-budget productions.

So, when I watch PD, I accept all these things. Where fans here see Page Fletcher stumbling around in a heavy suit, I see an outdated and unmaintained cyborg whose mental stability and sanity have slowly crumbled after 10 years of living as a man trapped in a machine. Where fans here feel trapped in the OCP sets, I see the writers cleverly confining all the OCP characters to OCP's halls in order to show how this corporation has infected every level of civilization in Delta City and how their money-hungry, humanity-corrupting ways now control everything.

Note that the few OCP characters who step out of their environs -- James Murphy and Hobley -- end up experiencing a complete 180 of intention and attitude, going from cogs in a corporate machine to rebels against the establishment. The final installment of PD, which some have jokingly called the epic stairwell battle, I see as the heroes charging into this implacable, inhuman infrastructure and blowing up the walls.

The abandoned warehouse sets aren't inspiring, but I feel that PD deliberately puts the focus on the characters and adds a strong human element to the action sequences. Why is James Murphy so willing to hunt down his own father? Will Murphy kill Cable to save the world? Are people like Damian Lowe and Sara Cable worth saving? How can Murphy stop Kaydick when the formidable Ann R. Key can't even hold her own against him? Will Hobley get his act together and stand up to Damian Lowe? The fights in PRIME DIRECTIVES aren't masterpieces, but the human factor is so strong that I find myself enjoying it.

As for Murphy's height throughout PD -- I think it's unfortunate that the one shot in "Dark Justice" shows that James is taller than Alex. But I don't feel any other shot incorrectly emphasizes RoboCop's lack of stature; all the shots where RoboCable towers over RoboCop are deliberately making Cable terrifying.

There are two areas where I think fans are pretty reasonable in expressing their distaste. for Murphy losing every single fight scene -- that's part of showing how the world has passed RoboCop by -- he doesn't win fights anymore, he just survives them and keeps moving forward. The music that is so mocked by the fans; PRIME DIRECTIVES was made with the TV license. They had no access to ED-209 or the Basil Poledouris music. Faced with the choice of making an imitation or doing their own thing, they did their own thing and decided to play up RoboCop as a Western with Murphy as an aged gunslinger and used the style of Italian western films.

As a fan -- I disagree with the approach to Murphy's fighting prowess and I think the music was a mistake. When you're making something that has a fanbase, fan expectations in these areas should be considered when they are achievable and the creators certainly could have let Murphy win a few rounds and done what the TV series did in creating a reasonable Poledouris-alternative.

But that doesn't mean that the creators were wrong. It just means that they chose A where I would have preferred B. It's a matter of personal taste, just as my view of Page Fletcher's RoboSuit work is what I see through my eyes and not what you guys see through yours.

From a behind the scenes perspective -- I really think that there was good intention and ambition behind their choices. Sometimes, there were production problems. Because PD was filmed on a three-month schedule for eight million, mime artist Moni Yakim could not be hired and even if they could have hired him, they would not have had four months to train Fletcher in the movements. Because of the three-month schedule, there was no way they could let Fletcher spend eight hours in makeup for the helmetless scenes, so it doesn't look good. The low budget also meant that action sequences and locations would never match the scale or detail of the 1987 film.

There were also issues caused by the rushed shooting schedule. Mistakes were made during the course of filming a 90-minute action movie every 22.5 days. The scene where RoboCop looks shorter than James Murphy is unfortunate. Then there's the mis-placed chinguard in the graveyard scene of "Meltdown" and the bland car chase, "Resurrection" having incomplete effects for Murphy's chinguard, "Crash and Burn" having Ann kill security guards after Murphy ordered her not to.

Errors like these happen in every film production and hurrying to get material filmed can mean these problems don't register until after the material is filmed and reviewed. Larger-budgeted productions will do reshoots; PRIME DIRECTIVES couldn't afford to do that. The creators are often accused of not noticing or caring about certain issues; the truth is that they often noticed them but had to accept them.

Richard Eden was approached to reprise his role as RoboCop. The creators met with him and it didn't work out. It wasn't that the creators didn't like Eden or didn't respect his talent or didn't want him -- they just couldn't reach an agreement to secure his services. If they could have, they would have, just as they would have hired Yakim or used the Basil Poledouris music had it been possible to do so.

So, watching PD -- I accept that it's a TV show on a TV scale and I find myself enjoying it. I think the writing for PD is very strong. I love the terrible sense that RoboCop is a slave of OCP, reprogrammed to kill his best friend. I love the machinelike coldness that Fletcher infuses into the role after killing Cable as RoboCop becomes violent and brutal towards the tech thieves. I love Fletcher's horror as he recognizes RoboCable and their battle in the wreckage of the police station. I really like the whole arc where Murphy's humanity is restored to him through triggering a shut-down section of his brain and Fletcher plays RoboCop with humour and wisecracks and conversational banter.

The scene where James Murphy confronts his father in the church is, to me, the high point of the ROBOCOP franchise.

I find the final movie really tense and gripping: how are they going to stop SAINT when Kaydick is in control of Cable? How can the heroes convince Damian and Sara to help them? What are they going to do when Kaydick gets control of SAINT to unleash LEGION and when the EMP device is locked in the SAINT chamber and what if Murphy has to die in the EMP burst? Even if our heroes beat SAINT, they'll have to do so by killing RoboCop. How can this possibly work out? The fact that it's set in a stairwell is just background detail to me. And it's part of the budget-conscious approach to the writing: they can't emphasize the setpieces, so they emphasize the character-situations.

I'm not blind to PD's faults -- I just enjoy it enough to overlook the faults. For most fans here, they have the opposite reaction.

I'd argue that the creators were not uncaring or incompetent. In some cases, they simply made different choices than the ones you or I might make because they are different people. In other cases, their choices were constrained by the budget, licensing, schedule, and the fact that Fireworks Entertainment really just wanted something to sell overseas before their TV license expired.

I will say that PD has not aged well, mainly because the cost of special effects and digital cameras has decreased significantly in the last 15 years. Digital cameras mean that more setups and scenes and pages can be shot each day with the ability to spend more time prepping. Digital makeup has made huge leaps forward. Rendering can add more detail and texture to effects on a TV budget now than was possible in 2000. Television has started to reach a cinematic level of scale and setpieces whereas PRIME DIRECTIVES reflects all the limitations of TV productions in the 2000s. Eight million and 90 days would go a lot farther today. I enjoy PRIME DIRECTIVES as RoboCop for TV in the 2000s.

None of this is meant to say you guys are wrong for disliking PRIME DIRECTIVES, of course. We all see ROBOCOP differently, we all want different things from the franchise and my perspective is *clearly* out of step with the majority of this message board.

Back in 2001, I got in a lot of arguments with people on the older version of this board and I really regret that. There's nothing wrong with different people reacting differently to a piece of art.




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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:14 am Reply with quote

Well, I think I know who you are, from the history discussed on this forum (I also remember you vaguely personally when I first joined up ages ago). If so, welcome back.

With that, before I go any further, I will preface this by saying that if you like Prime Directives, fine. You are indeed free to like it as much as you please.

That said, this is without a doubt one of the biggest loads of slightly condescending, absurdly rationalizing, painfully apologist crap I've ever seen, and, given my Civil War knowledge, trust me, that's saying something.

A fair portion of your post essentially says 'it's all subjective', and the rest is filled with ridiculous excuses.

As this topic has exhaustively detailed why Prime Directives is the load of dreck it is, I won't bother going over all your inane 'points', but I will make a few notes. And yes, you can take them however you want. I don't expect to change your mind, but damn I won't let that 'post' stand totally unchallenged.

First off, it being a TV show DOES NOT automatically mean it gets a pass or gets a lower scale of judgment on quality compared to films, or any other form of media, for that matter. Not to me. That is definitely one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Yeah it's a different format with different restrictions, parameters, and so on, but ultimately, the end result is the same as feature films or any other media, providing a good experience for the viewer. Regardless that reasoning doesn't save PD since it failed even as 'just' a 'TV show'. So basically, I don't see what saying that serves at all.

Its my understanding that back in 2000 there was an immense amount of hype catered directly to this community over this. If so, that grossly embellished and misleading promotion and expectation management was not on us, just like the piss-poor expectation management and promotion of the reboot was not on us. When those expectations were left woefully unfulfilled, hardly surprising many reacted poorly. But that poor reaction had to come from somewhere. And that somewhere is that they blew it.

THEY. I repeat that for emphasis because it's not our fault they didn't have enough money, enough time, enough where-with-all and so on and so forth. When it comes to media, they're catering to us, not the other way around; if they think they're doing anything else, they're failing by default, frankly. Otherwise, if they can't get all their ducks in a row and deliver something that makes the viewer look past the problems and still enjoy it, not on said viewer to cut them a break. Some of us have given credit to those behind this project for their attempt, to varying degrees, but 'attempt' doesn't matter, it's what they actually DO - Ultimately, it doesn't matter who they are, what they intended or what they had to work with - We judge by what is on the goddamned screen. If that doesn't make it, tough shit.

Again, you can like or even love this damn thing as much as you want. Many of us enjoy things considered shitty by overwhelming majorities. That doesn't mean it wasn't still a poorly done project and it sure as shit doesn't mean it's beyond criticism. Shit, there's criticisms about the original film which we all pretty much regard as perfect. The difference, again, is that it's good enough to be enjoyable beyond and/or in spite of those criticisms (of which are very few in the first place, at least I've seen very very few, anyway). Prime Directives is not, at least not for those who don't care to look past them. And the overwhelming majority of us do not.

In conclusion, I quote this - from right here in this very topic - And while this statement as it stands applies to RoboCop, it really applies everywhere in entertainment. Hell you could even put 'TV show' instead of 'robo' and it still applies. Without further ado -

Pretty much it :
Just because it has robo in it doesn't mean we have to swallow it up and go for dessert. We CAN demand some kind of quality.

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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:22 am Reply with quote

I'm sorry you didn't like my post.

I have to say that most of my opinions about ROBOCOP are in the minority and not shared by most fans here. For example, I dislike DARK JUSTICE which is probably the least loathed installment of PD and I really like all the Frank Miller ROBOCOP comics -- and in recent years, I've come to enjoy THE SERIES as an alternate vision of ROBOCOP. I'm a weird guy with weird tastes and I apologize for any irritation my eccentricities cause you.




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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:34 am Reply with quote

It's fine. It's also been said we don't have to absolutely despise anyone who likes Prime Directives. And I don't. Like I said, you can like Prime Directives all you want, that's fine. I take no issue with that. I do take issue with any attempt to defend Prime Directives as a worthwhile piece of media. We've heard most if not all of that shit before and to this day none of it works or stands up - None of it justifies, explains, or dismisses all the immense and even fundamental flaws in this thing. Furthermore, it's rather pointless and just plain annoying to even broach by this stage.

That's pretty much it. Not like I personally hate your guts or anything.

Then again, it is only Monday though..

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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:09 pm Reply with quote

I just thought it'd be fun to engage with some fellow RoboFans again because I've been re-reading all the comics. My personal experience of PD wasn't meant to argue that yours was wrong; it's just what I saw through my eyes. But it seems that all I did was stir up a lot of bad feelings and severely misread the room here. I don't want to irritate your community, so I'll back off except to offer a behind the scenes piece of info that I've sat on for quite a few years.

Richard Eden was approached to reprise his role in PRIME DIRECTIVES, but negotiations didn't work out. This was largely because Eden had a *terrible* experience on THE SERIES. Eden really cared about the role. He studied the movies in great detail before auditioning and while playing the role, trying to capture the RoboMovements. But the production treated him badly.

Eden was made to share a trailer with the guest-stars. The lead actor of the series was not given personal space to prepare and think. Eden was bolted into the suit for hours on end and ignored whenever he needed assistance between shots in moving, getting comfortable or needing to go to the washroom. Eden was injured on several occasions in filming the series and no corrective measures were taken. This, on top of long shooting hours, made for a very embarrassing and humiliating experience.

When Eden was approached to reprise his role for PD, he did not want to repeat the experience that he had on THE SERIES. The PRIME DIRECTIVES team knew of how horribly he'd been treated and assured him that he would have his own trailer, that he'd have a handler help him with safety and comfort issues, that they'd film as much as possible with only the top half of the suit, that the lower half would snap off independently, that they liked his work and wanted him back. But the three month schedule for four movies meant the physical demands would be even tougher than THE SERIES with longer hours and days.

Eden wanted an easier experience both in terms of respectful treatment and physical demands; production could offer the first but not the second and they couldn't come to an agreement on those terms.

I don't blame Eden for wanting very different terms from THE SERIES in order to return to the role; I don't blame the PD creators for only being able to offer him half of what he wanted to come back to the character. But it's really too bad. I read this whole thread, and Eden's gift for acting in the suit would have clearly been appreciated by the fans here.

Alright. I was going to post some stuff in the comics forum about why I like the Frank Miller comics, but I don't want to piss people off, so I think that's it for me. Maybe I'll start a blog!




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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:25 pm Reply with quote

While I think many would side with me here, that's not certain, and in any event don't take my view as being absolute.

That said, whatever your personal views, behind the scenes info is always good to hear, good, bad, or indifferent. Nice bit of info regarding Eden, good to have some insight there.

And finally, just because your take on PD wasn't well-received by me, doesn't mean you should shut up totally. I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on other stuff, even if I don't care for them as much - Though it never comes across well with me, I don't mind hearing other takes, even ones I think are shit, especially if they have some effort behind them as yours do.

So I would hope you reconsider posting generally. Hell I wouldn't mind hearing your take on the Series, as you seem to have a fair bit of knowledge at-hand about Eden and the show, and I myself do like the Series a fair bit. Again, thanks for the read up on Eden and his circumstances regarding PD and to an extent the Series - I think it would be a good segue into you posting about the Series (though not in this particular thread, of course). Not to say you should only post there - if you got views on the comics, or anything else, bring 'em out. You may get well-received or not, like I said, we all post what we think and not all of it jives with everyone. Don't be worried about what assholes may think, least of all this particular asshole. Wink
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:49 pm Reply with quote

Quite a big read!

While I also liked PD (I was still growing up and I remember my first internet searchs about RoboCop, and the PD website came with those fine stills in the rain and cool poses and blood) and I see that you want to show the good things about it, I find the message a little bit possitive.

That said, donīt have any problems with people involved on that production. I reached Grant, OīBrien and Abraham at some point and seemed nice people. Even get Abraham to talk about Robo on a RoboCop special that later became a PD interview (looks like it was difficult to find a reply from the people behind the trilogy) and worked on some comic stuff later together.


ireactions :
These creators all expressed great respect and appreciation for RoboCop


Yes. But even the hardcore fan would have trouble if heīd have a tiny budget and little time to develop the series.

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As for Murphy's height throughout PD -- I think it's unfortunate that the one shot in "Dark Justice" shows that James is taller than Alex. But I don't feel any other shot incorrectly emphasizes RoboCop's lack of stature; all the shots where RoboCable towers over RoboCop are deliberately making Cable terrifying.


I can buy the Cable being taller, but there are more situations that shows Robo being smaller than the rest of the cast (I remember an elevator scene on "Crash & Burn"). I think they could do some tricks to avoid that (even in bigger productions and with taller people they use a box or whatever to make that person look bigger. It could be difficult to hide the lack of height on wide shots, but no problem to use that on close-ups).

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There are two areas where I think fans are pretty reasonable in expressing their distaste. for Murphy losing every single fight scene -- that's part of showing how the world has passed RoboCop by -- he doesn't win fights anymore, he just survives them and keeps moving forward. The music that is so mocked by the fans.


I see that they went with Robo as an "old tool", but after all, giving him a winning situation would be cool. Also, while they focus on the human side of RoboCop, he looks like a secondary character, giving all the stuff to Cable.

As for de music, I wouldnīt have any problem with a different taste, but I think the trumpet solos are hard to taste. I do like some of the background music in the series, but it usually doesnīt involve trumpets or heavy metal stuff. And yes, sadly it sounds like TV score, without "real" and "organic" sounds.


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I really think that there was good intention and ambition behind their choices.


Yeah, no doubt on that. I doubt anyone who does a movie wants to do it just to mess with the fans. tongue

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PD was filmed on a three-month schedule for eight million.


Thatīs the big problem with the production. On the interview I did with Brad, I asked him what heīd like to change on PD after all those years. He asked "having more money and time for develop it". I can see some of the weird situations in the series would came due to time and money. I had the chance to take a look to the original idea and it was more complex and would require more bucks to get it made, so I see that they had to go back and rewrite a lot of stuff. Also, the studio was "giving advice", something that happens a lot. From hiring Playmates to changing the Robo-plot in "Ressurection": the original script have him on limbo for most of the chapter, getting "dreams" of his humanity while there was a fight between Robohunters and a bigger gangs of techno-thieves; Fireworks didnīt liked having him "disconnected" for so long.

Also, while I admire what they tried, Grant should know they didnīt have too much money to spend, and they should go for a more "grounded" story, less sci-fi, and, as some people pointed before, split the series on two episodes instead of four. That would give them more time to write the right thing and time to solve problems while filming.

PD looked rushed because it was a rushed production.

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Because of the three-month schedule, there was no way they could let Fletcher spend eight hours in makeup for the helmetless scenes, so it doesn't look good.


Iīm not a film expert, just a "nerd", but I think they could do it better. While I can understand about the makeup process, they could came with a better "Roboskull". After all, it was just a fiberglass part, so they could added similar details like the films, and go for a faster makeup for it. The back of Roboīs head had a simple sculpt, and while I can see they choose to go with the back of the helmet details, they didnīt do anything to add details at other parts, like the ears and chin. Also, if they didnīt have time to do a full makeup process, Iīd try to film the more helmetless Robo scenes at the same time, to get it done and avoid getting Fletcher on makeup more days.


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There were also issues caused by the rushed shooting schedule. Mistakes were made during the course of filming a 90-minute action movie every 22.5 days. The scene where RoboCop looks shorter than James Murphy is unfortunate. Then there's the mis-placed chinguard in the graveyard scene of "Meltdown" and the bland car chase, "Resurrection" having incomplete effects for Murphy's chinguard, "Crash and Burn" having Ann kill security guards after Murphy ordered her not to.


Thatīs what I said about the rushed production. That particular scene in "Crash & Burn" makes no sense. Also, the editing wasnīt very good. For example, the Robo entrance in "Meltdown" uses slomo and 100 takes of the same crash. I did some tests with that scene and itīd work better on a different way.

Iīd love to have a "redux" version of PD. I tried, but it seems the 5.1 audio was mixed on a way you couldnīt get the dialog without fx and music. I even reached Grant to ask him if he has some temp files of the flicks to play with them, but no luck.

I think with a better editing, different FXs and music, itīd improve the whole thing. Cut the long chats, the no-sense fights, get a better pacing and I think itīd feel different.




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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:01 am Reply with quote

Without going super into it (again), it has been said before that time and especially budget isn't that big an issue if you're not half-assing it and going about the project with absolute willingness and smarts. You either go big or go home. You can blame your schedule and budget but frankly that only goes so far.

The visual issues with Flecther's height - one poor point in a piece of media full of them - That could have been re-done a number of ways that would've solved or dodged that issue with little extra fuss (as Chanood has stated) and would have made the whole thing that much better. That it wasn't mostly speaks for itself as far as I'm concerned. If you give it your all it will show in the final product. If you don't, that will also show. While I truly do understand working with what you've got, you still need to give the absolute best effort you can in spite of the restrictions.. and I just don't feel that is the case in terms of the final product that is Prime Directives.
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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 2:15 pm Reply with quote

The fact that "the writing was bad" is on the bottom of your list makes is something that gets me everytime when people discuss a movie and its shortcomings.

Youre not the only one.. But writing while is easily the least costly of creating a movie, is the most creatively taxing.. Its also the most important.

Prime Directives caught my interest in Dark Justice because it was at least attempting to create a logical back story to Robocop ... everything just fell apart after that.

you can do amazing things with a lower budget.. ( go watch Ex Machina)

Prime Directives was terribly written,.. no amount of budget , actors and effects could mask that




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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 3:34 pm Reply with quote

I probably see PD as being better than it is just because, I was close to the people making it and got a lot of insight into the production. As such I can understand how it turned out the way it did and in some ways see it as a "fan" movie. Other people won't do that. They don't care how or why things turned out this way they just see it front and center on the screen.

An example is if I only had a 50 dollar budget to make a RoboCop movie. It would be absolute garbage and no matter how much I explained WHY the movie turned out the way it did it's still garbage. It is what's on the screen that will matter to people. It is what you do with the tools you have. I understand why the helmetless make-up looks like shit, but it still looks like shit, so it is shit. Smile

So MY biggest problem is that PD has many, many, many minor flaws that when combined seriously weaken the overall product. The good ideas and intentions are definitely there but that doesn't stop the actual result being what it is.

I feel the writing can be a bit goofy here and there but I don't think that is the main problem (I'm sure PD would be a great comic book.) The problem is in the execution and the director ignoring minor problems that to robofans are HUGE problems. Their failure to see that a short RoboCop without the robo moves would be a problem is incompetent and the way NO BODY in the production saw this as a problem or tried to fix it is mind blowing. Page Fletcher hadn't seen RoboCop beforehand apparently so its not his fault as such (although it would have been a good idea to study the character you are playing) but how about someone just showing him some classic Weller moves on the lunchbreak for 10+ minutes? Anyone could have done that. It's strange decisions like this and many others that makes PD into a lesser product.

It is my understanding that most robofans think "Dark Justice" is the BETTER of the four. Me included. For me it is mainly because here Robo is still Robo and a cop. With episode 2 it just goes all over board with robo in a blanket, kids, strange over the top sci fi and Robocable hi-jacking the whole story, oh and yes, the epic finale taking place in building stairway... Smile


Classic spoof by Mindchamber.




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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 4:06 pm Reply with quote

Mindchamber :
you can do amazing things with a lower budget.. ( go watch Ex Machina)


One of the few movies I was interested in. They didnīt showed in theaters here. tongue

Anyway, I still think time really could hurt everything. You could find that on comics, where you can see samples on the net of a new artist, and then reading a comic with a "meh" art, without knowing that the hot art you saw was made by the same dude of this comic.

As for money, I read that budget shouldnīt be a problem. Yeah, but you should adapt the story you have to that budget, or everything would look cheap. I think time + budget shows in PD. Those fake, videogame explosions at some points, for example. I think they choose a FX company which could do it quick and wouldnīt cost a fortune. And you see the results.

I think the shooting was a litle chaos, with improvised moments as well. Iīm not sure if they had everything planned as they wanted.

Archive :
I feel the writing can be a bit goofy here and there but I don't think that is the main problem (I'm sure PD would be a great comic book.)


I agree with that. I asked them why they didnīt try to sell the original scripts to BOOM!, as those publishers keep working on the "original spirit" of the movies. And on paper, you donīt need a big budget to create explosions, big shootouts and RoboCops showing their internal parts and getting really broken. But well, donīt know how the industry works, so I doubt they could have the rights over Fireworks to do that.


Archive :
It is my understanding that most robofans think "Dark Justice" is the BETTER of the four. Me included. For me it is mainly because here Robo is still Robo and a cop. With episode 2 it just goes all over board with robo in a blanket, kids, strange over the top sci fi and Robocable hi-jacking the whole story, oh and yes, the epic finale taking place in building stairway... Smile


Yeah, it looks like they have more "control" over the miniseries. It didnīt have too much action, and have a lot of character exposition, but as you say, it feels RoboCop, heīs the main character in this one, and the story is solid. As the series go on, it looks like they had to rush everything and make an end for this.

I could see the writers redoing the last chapters. In the first drafts of "Resurrection", Kaydick is more a "good guy" than an evil, mad scientist (and, spoilers, he dies there). And on the "Crash & Burn" one, heīs back, and his character is different. So I think they keep going and changing things over and over, even when they were filming it.




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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 5:12 pm Reply with quote

What Mindchamber says now :
The fact that "the writing was bad" is on the bottom of your list makes is something that gets me everytime when people discuss a movie and its shortcomings.

Youre not the only one.. But writing while is easily the least costly of creating a movie, is the most creatively taxing.. Its also the most important.

Prime Directives was terribly written,.. no amount of budget , actors and effects could mask that

What Mindchamber said before :
Seriously

Budget is a NON issue, absolutely ridiculous anyone could use that as kind of excuse to a bad film, its simply ludicrous.

When making a move you're story has to be powerful, directing percise and excution flawless, and you can direct that movie with a tyco tapedeck handycam. You can not work the other way around and expect a larger budget or more effects to band aid what was a shallow story and horrible acting. Case in point The new starWars Trilogy.

Robocop PD was fail, plain and simple and neither the director nor its writers understood the complexity of the character, though I give them credit for trying.


Felt I should quote these, since these are both relevant and astute observations.

I agree with the others about Dark Justice - That actually was something that wasn't a mess, and had something to it. The rest were mostly a big waste.

All-told, MC said it, the basic product itself fails - Aside from Dark Justice, the overall story was shit. Add to that a budget and schedule that were both lacking, a myriad of other problems, both large and small (but especially small, as Archive noted), and direction and acting that don't even seem to really even attempt to compensate for any of that, well, you get what you get.

Sad thing is, like MC, I have to give the writers some credit - There is a feeling they wanted to do something great with Robo, and I won't discount that; they did make some kind of attempt there. But again, overall, the project as whole didn't cut it, so there it is. And no matter what the writers wanted, those in charge only saw this thing from the start as being little more than a quick and dirty last-minute cash-grab. In retrospect, the production had 'clusterfuck' written on it from day one. Sadly, nothing much changed all the way to it making it on the screen.

The comic book idea is good, I think this might lend itself to that format much better.

Bah, all-told, we're just going in circles again, we've all gone over this shit before. As for the guy who precipitated all this, seems I've scared him off. I didn't mean to and hope that ain't the case, but if so, oh well. What can I say? The truth hurts. Bah.
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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 5:21 pm Reply with quote

Stan The Man :
Bah, all-told, we're just going in circles again.


We have to keep talking about anything until the next RebootCop come out tongue




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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 5:24 pm Reply with quote

I suppose.. Smile Would be nice if that dude stuck around - I wouldn't have minded seeing how sickeningly positive was about the Series or the Miller comics. I would probably have cut him a bit of a break on discussing the Series, TBH.

Prime Directives gets no breaks, though. As said, it's the gold standard of bad RoboCop.

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